Was, Problem With Racing Fans, now, Dying Mac

gavspen · Post by **gavspen** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:59 pm

For those who were nice enough to read/contribute to my "racing fans" problem, an update, and a request for advice from all.

I wont bore you with the details, but the situation has deteriorated to the point where Apple is offering to replace my G5 2x2.5 with a basic Mac Pro. Now, on the face of it, a fabulous offer, right? Well, yeah, I guess, except that this upgrade is going to cost about $2500+ I figure, and here is where I need your advice. Many bits of soft/hardware I own would have to be replaced, and I dont know how well some of the replacements function in the "Intel" world. What are your experiences? I am a Luddite, and have been resisting the change.

Here's what I got:

1.) TC Powercore and UAD PCI cards obviously need to be upgraded. Do they work well with Intel macs? Any weirdness with soft/hardware?

2.) Atmosphere/Trilogy broken, except for what most seem to regard as a most inelegant workaround. I do have Mach 5 II, and I stayed with the original version (which as I recall can utilize the .dat files from Atmosphere and Trilogy), thinking this might be an issue some day. Am I right? RMX works, as I understand it.

3.) East West Symphonic Orchestra Gold, Colossus and Ra. One must either upgrade to some newer version of the Kompakt thing-y, or Eastwest's own Play engine (which isnt yet available for all the VIs I own), right? Which do we like? Are they working well?

4.) Drumcore 2.5. Seems like it to ought to work fine. Does it?

5.) SampleTank and SonicSynth, no issues, I'm hoping.

6.) Mach 5 "I" and "II". (Some old files, obviously, use Mach 5 "I") Both working?

7.) Reason. I've called but they havent responded. Rewire works? Reason 4.0 is OK?

8.) I want to stay with DP 5.13 and Tiger. Yeah, I know, but I'm old and I cant learn sh*t any more. If I cant utilize my old hard drive (see next question) which has Tiger on it, I can wipe the new drive and install it, I hope (or am I just being silly?).

9.) Can I move the hard drives I have in my G5, which, of course, have authorizations and such on them, into the Mac Pro, and just have them fire up? Gosh, wouldnt that make life simple? So simple, in fact, that I assume the answer is a resounding NO!

10.) Please chime in with whatever else I've forgotten to mention, and apologies in advance; I'm sure all this info is here somewhere but it would take me days to find/read it, and I beg your indulgence.

If, of course, the G5 cant be made usable (meaning restored to a condition where the fans race somewhat, but I can deal with it) then all this is moot. In the meantime, thanks in advance for you help.

Gavin

mike_o · Post by **mike_o** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:52 pm

I have swapped HD's with no problem on my G4 with OS9, that was a while back, but I had 2 machines, a G3 and a G4, swapped back and forth all the time no problem.

my only concern is if the mac G5 used the same SATA style drive, just checked the specs on you G5-2x2.5, you SHOULD be able to plug in fire up and play away.

Reason works perfect on my intel machine, couldn't be happier, over a year withv3/v4 and reason has never crashed in stand alone or in rewire-knocking on wood as we speek-

some of the softsynth/samplers you mentioned I have never owned, so I cant really say-

this is what I use with nothing but happy results
Sequencers etc...
DP>Reason>Live>Remote SL Automap-all rewired at once(It's badass)

Synth Software

native-kore player
cakewalk-dimension LE w/ proteus pack
alphakanal-automat
alphakanal-automat 1
linplug-alpha - free alpha
key to sound - remedy
green oak software - crystal synth
pluggo - all plugins

I dont know if that helps, but they are some similar types of sound sources to the stuff you listed, power wise I have yet to even come close to maxing out my cpu, even with 6 instances of Kore player, 4 of Dimension LE and about 20 other non streaming soft syths plus 2-3 plugins per each channel.

I am running OSX Tiger 10.4.9 and its great.

I can't say about the specific instruments you mentioned, but you will be happy with the intel machine.

See Sig below for full system specs.

gavspen · Post by **gavspen** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:55 am

mike_o wrote:just checked the specs on you G5-2x2.5, you SHOULD be able to plug in fire up and play away.

Thanks Mike. It would be maaaahvelous if I could use the drives. I'm of course trying to check that with Tekserve (and anyone else I can to think of to ask) but they havent gotten back yet. Good on the Reason thing, and I see you're using Tiger and DP 5.x

I wonder what people use to replace Atmosphere and Trilogy, though? I dont use Atmosphere much but Trilogy has been useful.

Gavin

billf · Post by **billf** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:01 pm

gavspen wrote:For those who were nice enough to read/contribute to my "racing fans" problem, an update, and a request for advice from all.

I wont bore you with the details, but the situation has deteriorated to the point where Apple is offering to replace my G5 2x2.5 with a basic Mac Pro. Now, on the face of it, a fabulous offer, right? Well, yeah, I guess, except that this upgrade is going to cost about $2500+ I figure, and here is where I need your advice. Many bits of soft/hardware I own would have to be replaced, and I dont know how well some of the replacements function in the "Intel" world. What are your experiences? I am a Luddite, and have been resisting the change.

I was forced into a G5 to Macintel switch. It will be messy, but the Macintel is a better platform by far.

gavspen wrote:2.) Atmosphere/Trilogy broken, except for what most seem to regard as a most inelegant workaround. I do have Mach 5 II, and I stayed with the original version (which as I recall can utilize the .dat files from Atmosphere and Trilogy), thinking this might be an issue some day. Am I right? RMX works, as I understand it.

Convert them. Your archives are at risk if you don't.

If you don't update MachFive 2.0 to 2.02, you can read the dat files. As for Atmosphere and the like, I decided to convert the dat files and to never buy any of their rompler products again. It was too messy, and if it weren't for the MachFive loophole, my archives would have been lost forever. So Spectrasonics can sit and spin as far as I'm concerned.

gavspen wrote:3.) East West Symphonic Orchestra Gold, Colossus and Ra. One must either upgrade to some newer version of the Kompakt thing-y, or Eastwest's own Play engine (which isnt yet available for all the VIs I own), right? Which do we like? Are they working well?

There's a huge thread in the DP part of the forum on Play. I recommend checking it out and posting this specific question there. The jury is mixed on EW and Play it seems, but you might be lucky.

gavspen wrote:6.) Mach 5 "I" and "II". (Some old files, obviously, use Mach 5 "I") Both working?

I don't believe MachFive 1 is UB capable. You might want to check in the MachFive part of the forum.

gavspen wrote:8.) I want to stay with DP 5.13 and Tiger. Yeah, I know, but I'm old and I cant learn sh*t any more. If I cant utilize my old hard drive (see next question) which has Tiger on it, I can wipe the new drive and install it, I hope (or am I just being silly?).

9.) Can I move the hard drives I have in my G5, which, of course, have authorizations and such on them, into the Mac Pro, and just have them fire up? Gosh, wouldnt that make life simple? So simple, in fact, that I assume the answer is a resounding NO!

No, you can't move your Tiger install disk to the new machine and boot up. I tried, but it's all PPC code. You could use the migration tool to move things over, but if your G5 is already gone, then it's too late unless you have access to another G5. I ended up doing a clean install of everything. It took time, but it was worth it.

The drives that worked in your G5 though should be SATA disks which will work in your Mac Pro.

leigh · Post by **leigh** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:12 pm

I, too, was forced to move from my G5 to a Mac Pro.

The MP requires the boot disk to use the GUID Partition Table format. I had to partition a new drive with that and then use Super Duper! to clone the G5 boot disk onto the GUID Partition Table disk. Then I installed Leopard from the MP System disks over the old G5 Tiger system.

I could then boot up from what was essentially my old G5 startup. I had to tweak some things, but mostly it was fine.

The Mac Pro's 4 internal SATA bays made it easy to move over my external SATA tracking drives.

I was reluctant to give up the G5 because I was so happy with it but the Mac Pro is so much better and so much quieter.

**Leigh

Kubi · Post by **Kubi** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:55 pm

A few quick thoughts:

re. 3. Get Kontakt 3. Works like a charm, opens all of them with all keyswitches etc. Also now that NI authorizations are handled by their authorization app, Kontakt knows you own all the libraries. Really no problem. That said, I upgraded my EWSO to Play anyway... should ship soon.

re. 5. Sampletank died for me when moving to Intel/Leo, but I hadn't used it in a while anyway...

re. 6. As was mentioned, I believe MachFive 1 is no go for UB. MachFive 2 opens all older libraries, but you may have to reconstruct your old projects.

re. 8. The newest MacPros don't run Tiger. But DP5.13 runs GREAT on Leo.

re. 9. No as was mentioned, but the migration assistant works great. Just make sure the drives are accessible by your MacPro and start the app (it's in your Utilities folder inside Applications.)

Yes it's a pain now, but the new MacPros are miles above the G5s. My 2x2G5 died just a few weeks ago, and now that my migration is complete, I'm REALLY happy it did... Whole different experience, really.

best of luck to you!

gavspen · Post by **gavspen** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:22 am

Thanks everyone. You all seem to be saying, "Just go ahead and do it already!"

A couple of things:

billf, in reference to Atmosphere and Trilogy, you say "convert them". Sorry to be dense, but, er, to what? You mean go back and render everything to audio? Or convert the .dat files? Again, to what?

leigh, you seem to be saying what I was hoping. If I stick the old Tiger system disk in the Mac Pro, and install Leopard onto it, it will now be a startup disk for the Mac Pro, right? And, it will still have whatever authorizations were on it left intact, no? Which come to think of it, will be only RMX, since Atmosphere and Trilogy are going away, and so is the old EastWest Kompakt "lite".

Kubi, if you already have Kompakt 3, why do you also want Play? Arent they just two ways to play the same libraries?

I never used Atmosphere much but I do like Trilogy. If you dont want to use the somewhat inelegant workaround (or Mach 5 II for some reason isnt suitable), what have folks replaced it with?

Pardon these stupid questions.
Thanks all.

robstudio · Post by **robstudio** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:10 pm

Hey Gavspen,
sorry to hear it was terminal for the old mac. Not to state the obvious, but don't forget you'll need the newer pcie card from motu as well...(unless your firewire based, of course...) I believe the g5's are pci only... Good luck with the upgrade, once you're up and running, you'll dig it...
Regards, Rob

Kubi · Post by **Kubi** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:11 pm

gavspen wrote:Kubi, if you already have Kompakt 3, why do you also want Play? Arent they just two ways to play the same libraries?

I upgraded to the Platinum version while I was at it, otherwise yes, they are just two ways to play the same content.

And btw, it's Kontakt 3, NIs full-fledged sampler, which also happens to be able to read the legacy NI-based sample libraries, provided the authorizations are up-to-date. Kompakt, the "pocket-sized" version of Kontakt, is no longer.

chadd · Post by **chadd** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:13 pm

I bought Kontakt 3 for use with EWQLSO Gold and have no regrets. And since you own the Kompakt version, you're eligible for the crossgrade price on K3. I've since purchased other libraries from Sampletekk/PMI, Bolder Sounds, and Pendle Poucher that are made for Kontakt, so it's be come my virtual workstation. I have the Play version of EWQLSO Gold on order, but only because it was a free upgrade for me. I may wait for some field reports before installing it.

The latest version of SampleTank and it's running fine on my Mac Pro, although I've only used it for one project. Stylus RMX and Drumcore work as well.

billf · Post by **billf** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:45 pm

gavspen wrote:billf, in reference to Atmosphere and Trilogy, you say "convert them". Sorry to be dense, but, er, to what? You mean go back and render everything to audio? Or convert the .dat files? Again, to what?

If you have MachFive version 2.0 you can convert the Atmosphere patches to the MachFive format. You have to do so one by one, but at least afterwards you won't have to worry about Spectrasonics keeping their player updated because you won't need it.

leigh · Post by **leigh** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:50 pm

gavspen wrote: leigh, you seem to be saying what I was hoping. If I stick the old Tiger system disk in the Mac Pro, and install Leopard onto it, it will now be a startup disk for the Mac Pro, right? And, it will still have whatever authorizations were on it left intact, no? Which come to think of it, will be only RMX, since Atmosphere and Trilogy are going away, and so is the old EastWest Kompakt "lite".

The 4 internal SATA bays are great for this. Here's the sequence I used after the G5 died.

I booted from the Mac Pro's factory-installed startup disk and used Disk Utility to partition a blank SATA disk using the GUID Partition Table partition scheme. For Intel machines, the startup disk has to use a GUID Partition Table. Other, non-startup, disks do not.

Then I used SuperDuper! to duplicate the Tiger startup disk to the blank GUID SATA drive. Let's call it the "Old Disk".

Then I booted into the Leopard installer DVD and just updated the Tiger installation on "Old Disk" to Leopard.

I restarted with "Old Disk" as the new Mac Pro startup disk and it worked. I had to re-install a few things but mostly it just worked. I don't remember what I had to re-authorize, but it was so painless I guess that's why I don't remember.

If you don't have really good backups, I would recommend buying a second SATA drive and use SuperDuper! to make 2 copies of the G5 startup disk before you do anything. Then once your new system is stable, you can use it as a Time Machine disk which will bail you out at least twice in the first 2 months.

**Leigh

gavspen · Post by **gavspen** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:11 pm

leigh wrote:
gavspen wrote: leigh, you seem to be saying what I was hoping. If I stick the old Tiger system disk in the Mac Pro, and install Leopard onto it, it will now be a startup disk for the Mac Pro, right? And, it will still have whatever authorizations were on it left intact, no? Which come to think of it, will be only RMX, since Atmosphere and Trilogy are going away, and so is the old EastWest Kompakt "lite".
The 4 internal SATA bays are great for this. Here's the sequence I used after the G5 died.

I booted from the Mac Pro's factory-installed startup disk and used Disk Utility to partition a blank SATA disk using the GUID Partition Table partition scheme. For Intel machines, the startup disk has to use a GUID Partition Table. Other, non-startup, disks do not.

Then I used SuperDuper! to duplicate the Tiger startup disk to the blank GUID SATA drive. Let's call it the "Old Disk".

Then I booted into the Leopard installer DVD and just updated the Tiger installation on "Old Disk" to Leopard.

I restarted with "Old Disk" as the new Mac Pro startup disk and it worked. I had to re-install a few things but mostly it just worked. I don't remember what I had to re-authorize, but it was so painless I guess that's why I don't remember.

If you don't have really good backups, I would recommend buying a second SATA drive and use SuperDuper! to make 2 copies of the G5 startup disk before you do anything. Then once your new system is stable, you can use it as a Time Machine disk which will bail you out at least twice in the first 2 months.

**Leigh

Sounds like a plan Leigh.

Fortunately I have plenty of space to back things up, so I will be able to try your approach. Thanks for that.

Gavin

gavspen · Post by **gavspen** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:07 pm

By the way leigh, does SuperDuper bring over authorizations as it clones the disk? And did you use the free version?

Gavin

leigh · Post by **leigh** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:36 am

I don't think it did preserve the authorizations because they are linked with a particular computer. I had to change my Altiverb authorization to my iLok and update my Waves stuff to 5.9.7.

I used the full version of SuperDuper mainly to support the developer.

Overall, though, this was easy and it was still a major change. Don't start it until you have a few free days to work out the initial kinks.

Good luck and keep us posted.

**Leigh

MOTUnation.com

Was, Problem With Racing Fans, now, Dying Mac

Was, Problem With Racing Fans, now, Dying Mac

Re: Was, Problem With Racing Fans, now, Dying Mac