Avantone MixCubes - Educate Me Please

Resonant Alien · Post by **Resonant Alien** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:39 am

I am not sure I understand why I would need these. The idea is that you can check your mix on these to see how well it translates to "real world" (aka crappy) speakers on computers and portable players.

What I don't understand is why would I pay close to $400 for the MixCubes instead of just buying an actual set of real world crappy speakers for under $100?

Just curious...

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:24 pm

Reference Monitors are called that for a reason -- they are meant to be as neutral as possible for a given set of criteria.

If the criteria includes "real world lousy environments and playback equipment", the Reference Monitors designed for that task will attempt to average out those conditions in a way that covers the most cases.

Any specific "crappy loudspeaker" will simply bias you towards that particular model's characteristics, which may well have an even worse impact on another "crappy loudspeaker" model, or on an actual good set of monitors.

The goal is always to sound good on as much equipment as possible, at all tiers of pricing and quality. The Avantone Mixcubes deliberately cut the bass and do a few other things at certain frequency bands that do a good job of emulating a low-end environment, as a sanity check during mixing.

One could probably achieve similar goals through alternate mix settings or alternative CueMix settings in an I/O's console window, but at the very least it is more convenient to just be able to switch back and forth (via a switching circuit) between different output devices without fiddling with the mix (this can be time-consuming, error-prone, and you could easily lose your concentration for direct comparison purposes, vs. having dedicated loudspeakers for Mono Mix, Low-End Mix, etc.).

Resonant Alien · Post by **Resonant Alien** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:50 pm

Good points. I think I understand the subtle difference.

bkshepard · Post by **bkshepard** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:22 pm

Another difference between the MixCubes and monitor speakers is that there is no crossover--all the frequencies come out of one cone. In a typical reference monitor, high, low, and sometimes mid frequencies are each directed to a specific speaker cone dedicated to handling that frequency range. Thus, you get optimal efficiency in each band. Many low-fi systems like boom boxes, TV monitors, earbuds, etc., send all the frequencies to only one speaker cone. Often, when that happens, strange anomalies can happen where, for instance, low frequencies might interfere with the speaker's ability to reproduce higher frequencies. Checking your mix on a set of speakers like the MixCubes allows you to check for those sorts of problems as well.

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:41 pm

Good point -- I had actually forgotten about that, but it's a rather core component of the design philosophy of such monitors. We take crossovers for granted these days, and forget what a huge impact they have on our perceptions of spectral differentiation and spatial elements in sound.

HCMarkus · Post by **HCMarkus** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:08 pm

Get the passive version of the Avantones and drive them from an old stereo receiver or amp and you'll save $200. Other than the convenience factor, I see no reason for active Mic Cubes whatsoever. As noted previously, they have no crossover network, so the active vs passive x-over arguments don't come into play. They all sound similarly (and gloriously) band-limited and generally lame.

FYI, I own a pair of Mix Cubes. Lame is sometimes essential.

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:57 pm

I have a very old set of Radioshack Minimus 7s (in the wood cabinets) that I have kept for years just because it was supposed to be one of the better "cheapo" benchmarks. Don't have them hooked up, but I might do that some day.

bkshepard · Post by **bkshepard** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:37 pm

I've got a pair of the powered Avantone MixCubes on order, but they are backordered.

ramadev · Post by **ramadev** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:11 pm

I use Avantones in a studio I run & maintain in Scotts Valley, and have the much older Auratones in my own studio. They're quite helpful; I refer to them next to the Genelec 1031As that are in both studios. If it sounds good on Avantones then it will probably sound good most anywhere. I also check mixes with AKG K-240 headphones.

James Steele wrote:I have a very old set of Radioshack Minimus 7s (in the wood cabinets) that I have kept for years just because it was supposed to be one of the better "cheapo" benchmarks. Don't have them hooked up, but I might do that some day.

Minimus 7s were an exceptional value; they sound amazing for what they cost. They have surprisingly good bass and high end. I wouldn't call them flat though; they're more like hi-fi speakers than monitors, with a bright high end and somewhat more than full lows. They're often used as 3rd monitors to check how a mix will sound on a good car stereo. I have 4 or 5 pairs of 'em. I found two of the pairs over the last 3 years at a thrift store, so keep your eyes open & you might find some. I use one pair for my home theater rear L-R channels and another as the front center channel; they sound great in that application.

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:35 pm

Yeah... I have a pair in the wood cabinets as I said. I've listened to both types... wood and metal boxes... and felt the wood boxes sounded just a tad better. I may hook them back up just for the heck of it.

SixStringGeek · Post by **SixStringGeek** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:08 am

bkshepard wrote:I've got a pair of the powered Avantone MixCubes on order, but they are backordered.

Mine came in a couple weeks ago. They are very clear and tight sounding, with great imaging. Just light on low response. I quite like them.

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:37 am

Some of us got rid of our power amps a few years ago...

.

So it's a matter of convenience, setup simplicity, etc. -- even in cases where there may not be quite as clear win from a conceptual point of view, for a powered set.

But by all means, if your setup is already (or still) geared towards having a power monitor in the equation, save yourself some dough on the passives.

ramadev · Post by **ramadev** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:00 am

BTW the Avantone documentation says they sound best after exercising them for a while (20-30 hours? I don't have the docs here with me...just so long as the cones get flexed and loosened up).

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:13 am

That's typical of any speaker. In fact, it is common practice at the high end (and even mid-range) of the market, for the manufacturer to break them in before shipping. But it's also common with amps and cables/etc. to have a break-in period -- including high-end gear (or maybe especially high-end gear).

One could almost describe the breaking-in process at the subatomic level, in terms of how patterns of flow establish themselves through usage and how that optimises other aspects of the overall circuit behaviour.

bkshepard · Post by **bkshepard** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:13 am

I've heard about having a break-in period for equipment, but I've always been curious about what kinds of stuff you should play through the gear to break it in. Is there a certain kind of audio (music, tones, noise) or specific levels you should use? Or should you just "play stuff" like you always do anyway?