Piano recording tips-to all and maybe MLC could chime in.

[buzzsmith]

First, thanks to Brad for his pix...

Logistically, here's where I am...



and



I feel like I'm getting a little too much wall reflection (in the corner...DUHHH!) and am thinking about hanging some thick "moving pads" temporarily on each wall next to and behind the piano. (I don't think wife would go for Auralex!)

I like the openness of the sound I'm currently getting, but I want to minimize a bit the ambient room sound.

Saturday session...any insights or feedback?

Thanks again!

Buzzy

[Drab Noyls]

You're right about the wall, but why not just turn the piano so it "speaks" into the room? Most of your "wall" issues will go away. If you get it out of the corner, that pesky low end build up will clean up too. This will eliminate the need for a pile of pillows under the instrument, opening up the sound. Of course leaving the pile of pillows there will continue to do some useful bass trapping.The room will still be kind of live due to all the hard surfaces. Use the blankets to taste.

[buzzsmith]

Thanks, Drab...

Sometimes the "obvious" is not so obvious!

Rotating the piano 180˚ shouldn't be an issue for the session and pushing it further out into the room.

Thanks!

Any more feedback from other Uni's is more than welcome!

Buzzy

[BradLyons]

Put that piano in the center of the room when you want to record.... what mics do you have available to you?

[bolla]

The pillows remind me of many nights spent asleep under pianos or consoles.......
Facing the saddle out into the room. Good advice. First move.
Not so sure about moving the piano into the middle of the room. Sometimes the middle of a room can emphasize or nullify the rooms main resonant frequencies. Can be good or bad.
Perhaps try shifting the pf away from the corner and the midrange to hf pinging that you will get there. Perhaps facing out from the longest wall.
Small mic distance changes towards the soundboard will also have quite a noticable change in your direct to ambient sound.
Cheers, Bolla

[Phil O]

Looks like that couch will do some useful absorption as well. Experiment with it's position. No need to mess with your walls. You can make stands out of wood or pvc pipe to hold treatment that can be quickly moved into place and stowed away after the session.

Rock on!

Phil

[Spikey Horse]

Have you thought about using these?

http://www.seelectronics.com/IRF.html

- at least in addition to some rough and ready, removable wall treatment, moving the piano etc.

I've heard the vocal version is actually very good and a lot less gimmicky than you might think. I'm going to be borrowing one soon to try out - they're not exactly cheap. Not heard so much about the instrument ones and certainly not when used on such a large and unique instrument, namely a grand piano.

Also I was thinking (for my own use) that they (or rather the vocal one) may be great at homoginising (sp?) as well as just improving the sound of various (practice/ demo type) recording sessions (to be edited together), spread out over time and possibly recorded in a variety of differently unsuitable spaces.

For your situation, if they'll fit your mics and help enough (in addition to... etc) then at least they are small and probably useful thing to have ....

I'd be very interested to hear about anyone's experience with the vocal version (perhaps on another thread).

[buzzsmith]

Have you thought about using these?

http://www.seelectronics.com/IRF.html

A colleague of mine uses one of these for vocals and really likes it.

Maybe not for this session with the piano, but I did find and order some "Producer's Blankets"...feel like they'll come in handy for sumpin'...

http://moverssupplies.com/BW-Cotton-Bla ... rs-Choice/

Buzzy

[buzzsmith]

The pillows remind me of many nights spent asleep under pianos or consoles.......

Wife's idea...everybody likes the big stuffed dog...I'm not sure what it's doing acoustically, but I'm gonna move the piano tomorrow and re-mic it with the incoming Shure KSM44's and do a little experimenting.

Still considering what mics to place above the hammers...I'll have to get back to Brad's comments, soon.

Buzzy

[buzzsmith]

.... what mics do you have available to you?

Brad:

I've got 2 Shure KSM44's coming tomorrow for the more distant micing...other possibilities for hammer mics other than the 414's include:

2 Rode NT5's
2 Shure SM81's

Those are my only other available pairs...singly I have:
AKG C-3000
Blue Woodpecker
Audio Technica ATM 33a
Audio Technica 3035
Rode NT1-A

Buzzy

[BradLyons]

Okay, look at the pictures I did above....place the SM81's where you see the Royer mics up on the hammers, and put the KSM44's where you see the MA200's. Place the piano in the center of the room, be careful with your gain on the mics.... it should sound stellar. Forget room mics unless you can use good mics, instead put a really nice convolution reverb on the KSM channels.

[BradLyons]

sorry, they were in this thread:

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29920

That is a Yamaha C7 I was miking, by the way---is your's a C or a G? It looks like a 6ft 3"?

[buzzsmith]

Thanks, Brad...

I'm on my iPhone right now, but I'll check it out tomorrow!

[buzzsmith]

Thanks for all the tips!

I ended up moving the Shure SM81's to the hammer position and the Shure KSM44's as shown.



I decided to not move the piano yet and was very pleased with the reduction in wall reflections for Session 1. For Session 2, I did put some thick blankets over the open lid side to prevent some of the piano sound from being reflected.

I don't think that this piano has ever sounded better recorded. No complaints from the accomplished pianist who was here for both sessions, either.

Buzzy

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Sorry I missed the post - so I haven't chimed in until now.

I tend to like a very close mics and place mics fairly close to the rim. I've also used hi density foam cut to the lid openings at 1/4 stick. The sound is very dry, adding reverb later.

The technician on my last CD insisted on micing about 8 feet from the piano. I hated it and had to retake the entire project.