not crazy about the white GUI

chrispick · Post by **chrispick** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:38 pm

I hope I come off as the MOTU apologist or general contrarian, but the new white does not bother my eyes a bit.

In fact, I'm not sure than light gray isn't as fatiguing over time as white is.

Don't most if not all word processing apps feature white backgrounds? People have spent hours in front of them for years.

Oh well. One man's opinion.

zed · Post by **zed** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:57 pm

chrispick wrote:Don't most if not all word processing apps feature white backgrounds? People have spent hours in front of them for years.

Most of the writers that I know wear sunglasses while working.

No, I'm just kidding... none of my writer friends have actually admitted to that... but they probably do.

Tritonemusic · Post by **Tritonemusic** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:49 pm

chrispick wrote:Don't most if not all word processing apps feature white backgrounds? People have spent hours in front of them for years.

That's definitely not the way I want to spend years of my life.

Eleventh Hour Sound · Post by **Eleventh Hour Sound** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:52 pm

chrispick wrote:I hope I come off as the MOTU apologist or general contrarian, but the new white does not bother my eyes a bit.

In fact, I'm not sure than light gray isn't as fatiguing over time as white is.

Don't most if not all word processing apps feature white backgrounds? People have spent hours in front of them for years.

Oh well. One man's opinion.

Look at you! No wonder you don't mind the white 1 Dimensional look. You're white with a black outline too!

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:55 pm

Word processing apps and music apps have little in common in terms of how we use them. In music apps, we're jumping all over the screen, all the time. Graphic apps would be a better choice, and they almost always have gray, black, and/or checkered backgrounds for this very reason. One can even look away from the screen while writing in a word processing app. It's just not the same thing. Furthermore, it's usually constrained to a single page. DP can take up as many screens as you give it. And we're looking all over that screen, all the time. It's just not a good comparison.

Think of graphic apps like Photoshop, and you'll see immediately that they've considered eyestrain and relative brightness as very important factors. Of course, it literally alters how you see what you are drawing and coloring. But the fatigue aspect is an even larger factor in DP, where you have to monitor so much information, constantly.

I like the white as an idea, but it needs to be softened with some gray graphic elements and shadows. VERY much so. IMHO.

Shooshie

Eleventh Hour Sound · Post by **Eleventh Hour Sound** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:06 pm

Shooshie wrote:Word processing apps and music apps have little in common in terms of how we use them. In music apps, we're jumping all over the screen, all the time. Graphic apps would be a better choice, and they almost always have gray, black, and/or checkered backgrounds for this very reason. One can even look away from the screen while writing in a word processing app. It's just not the same thing. Furthermore, it's usually constrained to a single page. DP can take up as many screens as you give it. And we're looking all over that screen, all the time. It's just not a good comparison.

Think of graphic apps like Photoshop, and you'll see immediately that they've considered eyestrain and relative brightness as very important factors. Of course, it literally alters how you see what you are drawing and coloring. But the fatigue aspect is an even larger factor in DP, where you have to monitor so much information, constantly.

I like the white as an idea, but it needs to be softened with some gray graphic elements and shadows. VERY much so. IMHO.

Shooshie

+1

YHO is MHO

chrispick · Post by **chrispick** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:20 pm

Shooshie wrote:Word processing apps and music apps have little in common in terms of how we use them.

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:30 pm

chrispick wrote:
Shooshie wrote:Word processing apps and music apps have little in common in terms of how we use them.
Really. This hadn't occurred to me.

Shooshie, lately your posts have gotten more and condescending, and to the applause of many here. Just type to me as if I have half a brain and I'll be cool. I bite my tongue a lot.

Anyway.

Look, all I'm questioning is whether or not this white issue is really as fatiguing as everyone claims or assumes it is. Perhaps the word processing app example doesn't ring well. Word processing wasn't really my point, now was it?

I use all sort of computer apps all the time from Word to Illustrator to After Effects to Final Cut Pro to Maya (and if you think navigating a DAW takes a MENSA card, try working on a pro-level 3D app for weeks, topped with an all-nighter). They all have different UI appearances and none of them has ever incurred greater strain upon my eyes than another. Staring at any monitor for hours will do it. Staring at a tv screen for hours can do it.

Any condescension was unintended, my friend. I had read your comments comparing DP to Word Processing apps before I got my copy of DP6, and it was encouraging to me. Then I got it, and after working in it a little bit I realized that the white was really bothering me. That's when I also realized that graphics programs use grays or blacks to reduce eyestrain. I was just stating it matter-of-factly here, without intentions of sounding competitive. I haven't even been writing in the forum for the past few months, if you recall, so it's unlikely that I've grown condescending, but now I feel condescending saying that!

Let's just hit the reset button on that one, ok? I'm just calling shots as I see 'em. On that one, it seemed to need a different frame of reference. Didn't mean for it to be a personal thing. I've come across it in more than one thread, so please forgive me for having repeated that response elsewhere. Nevertheless, I'm right and you're wrong.

(NOT REALLY!!! Just joking)

Shooshie
PS: I watch my son spending hours in Maya and other 3-D environments. While some windows are black/blue, there do seem to be a lot of text windows and glare. I'm sure that DOES fatigue you. It certainly does him, and I get tired just watching!

Tritonemusic · Post by **Tritonemusic** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:57 pm

deleted

Eleventh Hour Sound · Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:43 pm

I appreciate all you guys too; know that my sarcasm in not directed at anyone, just a way of venting.

I really hope there some nice surprises in store soon....

zed · Post by **zed** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:29 am

We're a nice bunch of people, we, the members of Unicornation.

And we love the Colonel, even when he wears his bright white suit.

grimepoch · Post by **grimepoch** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:58 am

I think the whole point is that those other apps don't require typically the same sort of recognition of detail in time over long spans of pretty boring data to actually look at.

I have spent YEARS working with 3D Studio Max, Autocad, Maya, Poser, Photoshop, on and on and on and on. In honesty, this has no relevance to DP. You don't use them the same as you use DP, so the aspects of the GUI do not compare.

I've used Cakewalk, Samplitude, ProTools, Logic, Cubase, DP, Sound Track Pro all to do the same thing. I've spent thousands of hours in all these but Cubase & ProTools. When I am in the Sequence Editor, my regions, my information doesn't pop out at me. My eyes have to hunt for the information. This color scheme may work for some people, and that's great, but it doesn't work for me.

If I am editing an hour and a half audio files for a film, it's painful. It's definitely more painful than working in DP5.13. Of course, I am stuck in DP6 because the film people needing the audio done on a 23.98 framerate. But that is beside the point.

When I worked with the same files in Sound Track Pro, which also has a lot of white in it, it looked far superior. The audio regions and their audio data popped out very easily to see. Automation could be seen at the same time the audio was up without having to constantly switch between soudbite and volume. Most importantly, when you drag a region in Sound Track pro, not only does the wiper remain, but three more lines are added, one for where your cursor is in the region, and one each for the beginning and end of the region so as you are lining things up, you have TONS of references which work amazingly.

DP has made NO advancements in this area in a long time. Really, how hard can these things be to program? They are just visual aids. They are NOT hard to program. Instead, MOTU has focused on added more instruments, more plugins. I personally don't NEED another convolution reverb OR a limiter. I've had those bases covered. So for me, this was NOT worth the $200 of upgrading because it makes it harder to work in it (and yes, I have given it time) and has become WAY LESS stable for me. It crashes a lot more on audio edits, like fade adjustments.

I guess I am just very disappointed.

monkey man · Post by **monkey man** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:11 am

GE, I'm truly sad for you man, especially after the agonisingly long wait.

I can only hope that an update soon fixes these issues for you, and that MOTU heard your call.
Have you sent the "white paper" off yet?

grimepoch · Post by **grimepoch** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:23 am

Not yet. I have to get the film project done first (waiting for the director to get here at the moment), but once that is done, I will finish writing it.

What I need to do is spend the due diligence of making sure I have explored every avenue and every ability inside of DP relative to my suggestions to make sure (1) those features don't exist or (2) they are overly not as adequate as they should be.

Basically, I take others feelings, both good and bad, into account as I plan to submit my suggestions. Honestly, my suggestions are just that, and carry probably very little weight with them. But it's all we can do to try and help. I've enjoyed DP for MANY years, and I want to for MANY more. So I have no choice but to try and help get it to where I'd like it.

monkey man · Post by **monkey man** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:39 am

Well, my almost weightless, humble opinion is that yours would matter to MOTU, Grimster.

I'm sure they'll appreciate the white paper, especially as you're taking its construction so seriously.

On behalf of our fellow 'Cornies, thank you in advance, man.