VSL VE3 & DP - How's it working for you?

instacue · Post by **instacue** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:59 pm

Anyone successfully running DP on a Mac with PC slaves running VE3?
How's the performance & reliability? Do you have to reload VSL sounds every time you open a new chunk in DP?

I run VE2 now on an 8 core Mac Pro, 16 GB ram.
I'm considering buying PC slaves to load multiple instances of VE3, running alongside additional instances of VE3 on my Mac, controlled by DP. I'm hoping that saving a template to access all my VSL sounds in a V-Rack within DP will allow playing of all my VSL sounds without having to reload them every time I open a new chunk.

There's a thread on the VSL user forum, http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/t/186 ... ageIndex=1,
where PC users say every time they open a new sequence on their PCs they have to completely reload all their VSL sounds.

I hope that isn't so in DP on Macs?

VSL has acknowledged the problem, and promises an update which will fix it, but meanwhile, how is it working now for DP Mac users?

Thanks for your replies

jstaczek · Post by **jstaczek** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 4:02 pm

See this thread http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... hlight=ve3

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 4:15 pm

This has been a question I've been pursuing for a few weeks now-- along with others.

Check these links:
http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=233119

There is also an interesting link on the VSL forum that I've been hoping would generate more responses from Mac users:

http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/t/19153.aspx

The few results that appeared are "mixed" in the sense that no one is using Macs exclusively. There always seems to be at least one PC involved!! But the reports of the Mac behaving itself are very encouraging. I just wish there were more info for all-Mac networks. I'm actually surprised that none of the VSL team has posted anything in particular on the "positive reports" thread by this time-- or even that so few VSL users have responded to date. I don't know if that should worry me or not. Hmm.

I've been wanting to move away from hardware interfaces on each machine to the simpler ethernet solution offered by VE3. I will probably buy it before the price goes up, but the sample dumping must be fixed first before I make a full transition.

The other thing I'm hoping for is that DP6's revised AU protocols will add whatever additional compatibility that might be currently less functional-- whatever that might be. Other concerns where Core Audio and Core MIDI are involved might render PPCs inoperable where Snow Leopard promises cleaner code and speed advantages to the exclusion of PPCs, but so much of this remains to be seen. I'd really like to keep my G5 as a VSL host in my network along side the Intels. I just don't want to revamp my setup now only to have to start over it in 6 months when Snow Leopard appears.

The other thing is that not all VIs support ethernet audio and MIDI. It wouldn't make sense for me to revamp everything for VE3 only to find that none of my other VIs will work at all.

But-- instacue-- if you hear anything on your end before the rest of us, please keep us posted. I'll do the same.

rikp · Post by **rikp** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:55 pm

I am away from my studio for the summer, playing. But, I have 3 Mac G5s running VE3 and it has been fairly smooth sailing. I am very impressed with this app! I will be back at the end of August to put it through its paces, but so far I am very optimistic about the possibilities that VE3 provides! I was running strings on my main DAW with DP and Bass and woodwinds on the other two Macs! Worked like a charm!

My 2 cents!

Peace

rikp

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:07 pm

rikp wrote:I am away from my studio for the summer, playing. But, I have 3 Mac G5s running VE3 and it has been fairly smooth sailing. I am very impressed with this app! I will be back at the end of August to put it through its paces, but so far I am very optimistic about the possibilities that VE3 provides! I was running strings on my main DAW with DP and Bass and woodwinds on the other two Macs! Worked like a charm!

My 2 cents!

Peace

rikp

rikp-- we must continue this when you get back!! Thanks for the report.

jstaczek wrote:See this thread http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... hlight=ve3

Hey Jason-- So sorry--- I didn't even realize that you'd already posted that link before I finished my long-winded response. Ironically, my link ending in 233119 is the same thread as yours ending in 29457.

At least we're literally on the "same page"!

rikp · Post by **rikp** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:57 pm

Frodo wrote:
rikp wrote:I am away from my studio for the summer, playing. But, I have 3 Mac G5s running VE3 and it has been fairly smooth sailing. I am very impressed with this app! I will be back at the end of August to put it through its paces, but so far I am very optimistic about the possibilities that VE3 provides! I was running strings on my main DAW with DP and Bass and woodwinds on the other two Macs! Worked like a charm!

My 2 cents!

Peace

rikp
rikp-- we must continue this when you get back!! Thanks for the report.

jstaczek wrote:See this thread http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... hlight=ve3
Hey Jason-- So sorry--- I didn't even realize that you'd already posted that link before I finished my long-winded response. Ironically, my link ending in 233119 is the same thread as yours ending in 29457.

At least we're literally on the "same page"!

No problem Frodo! I will keep you posted.

Peace

rikp

Simsy · Post by **Simsy** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:04 pm

I have VE3 running with a Mac Pro, a mac mini and a Mac Book Pro. It all runs really well and I can get more instruments.

I just need better machines as slaves as I can't get enough memory in these two to really make it worth my while.

I am currently saving up for a PC capable of 32GB RAM!! May take a while

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:24 pm

Simsy wrote:I have VE3 running with a Mac Pro, a mac mini and a Mac Book Pro. It all runs really well and I can get more instruments.

I just need better machines as slaves as I can't get enough memory in these two to really make it worth my while.

I am currently saving up for a PC capable of 32GB RAM!! May take a while

Excellent, Simsy! Thanks.

Just curious here-- is it the price of a PC with 32GB RAM that's more attractive than adding another MacPro with 32GB of RAM, or is there some technical benefit to using a PC for you that would enhance actual performance?

I ask because I saw the Vision DAWs and wondered about the prices.

http://www.visiondaw.com/productcart/pc/prd_4u5400x.asp

The base price for the model that comes with 4GB RAM is about $4k. It can be upgraded to 128GB RAM, but they don't really show a price for that option. They do show that upping the RAM to 64GB adds another $3500, so I can imagine that maxing the machine out would easily set the buyer back at least $10k-- not included hard drives and using the slowest available processor, being a 2 x Quad 2.5 Ghz Intel Xeon.

That's the funny thing about hardware: every time it comes down in price it gets more expensive!!

FMiguelez · Post by **FMiguelez** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:36 pm

.

Now I don't get it. I thought (based on things I've read) that Vista totally sucked for music work. Yet, a lot of users over at VSL seem to be using just that, and quite effectively... and accessing TONS of RAM. I even read a post where some are running Vista out of a MacPro.
So, aside from it being a sin and pure blasphemy (

), why would one opt to do that? I suppose they wouldn't have access to 64 bit memory if it runs on a Mac that is not yet capable of fully supporting that, so what's the deal?

Also, for those using Mac Minis successfully, you ARE using a 7200 RPM external HD, yes?

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:30 pm

FMiguelez wrote:.

Now I don't get it. I thought (based on things I've read) that Vista totally sucked for music work. Yet, a lot of users over at VSL seem to be using just that, and quite effectively... and accessing TONS of RAM. I even read a post where some are running Vista out of a MacPro.

It could be a matter of "hosting" vs the heavy usage of a DAW that is also hosting VIs and effects. My G5 works great at a standstill. I've got DP loaded to the gills with VIs that I'd never consider loading in if I were using that machine for anything else but hosting. I'm sure that if I hit the Spacebar there'd be a mushroom cloud visible for miles around.

Same could be true for Vista. Running a DAW master *may be* less successful in Vista, but having it just sit there hosting VIs could be a whole other matter. The Vision DAW is actually running a hot-rodded version of XP, but a couple of Mac users are running VE3 inside Vista ON THE MAC with great success.

...And the Lion laid down with the Lamb...

FMiguelez wrote: So, aside from it being a sin and pure blasphemy ( ), why would one opt to do that? I suppose they wouldn't have access to 64 bit memory if it runs on a Mac that is not yet capable of fully supporting that, so what's the deal?

In at least one case, that would be 128 GB of 64-bit memory on a PC. The most current MacPros can do 32 GB with 8 x 4GB sticks in the $5k range. I get the feeling that the next gen Macs will either have 4 riser cards or will be kit-bashed to take 8 x 8GB sticks-- or more (?).

But, Vista has been out long enough that developers have had lots of consumer feedback that has enabled fixes and updates to at least begin overcoming some of the earlier complaints about the OS's quirks.

Not sure, FM. Some people prefer Apples while others prefer Oranges!

FMiguelez · Post by **FMiguelez** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:24 pm

Frodo wrote:I've got DP loaded to the gills with VIs that I'd never consider loading in if I were using that machine for anything else but hosting. I'm sure that if I hit the Spacebar there'd be a mushroom cloud visible for miles around.

Frodo wrote:But, Vista has been out long enough that developers have had lots of consumer feedback that has enabled fixes and updates to at least begin overcoming some of the earlier complaints about the OS's quirks.

Not sure, FM. Some people prefer Apples while others prefer Oranges!

Agreed. I was just being silly. But obviously, things have changed regarding Vista, at least as a host. It must've been almost a year since I read those ugly reports, so my info is not current anymore.

So maybe it's not such a bad idea to reconsider going or implementing the "Vista" way. I mean, I WILL take 128 GB of RAM access ANY DAY

That's, what, 1/5 of the entire VSL loaded into RAM?!?!

I can probably build another relatively inexpensive PC (not taking into account the RAM price). But just imagine: I am lucky to load 1.5 GB on each of my current PCs. Even if I could only load 16 or 32 Gigs in one, it would DRAMATICALLY change my workflow for the better.
I'd rather stick with Macs, but if Vista seems to be delivering what we need, then what the hell... I already have a few PCs anyway. What's one more, if I can load 5-10 times (at least) as much?

So many variants, so many unknowns, so much uncertainty. But hey, at least no body can say these are dull and unexciting times

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:27 am

FMiguelez wrote:...but if Vista seems to be delivering what we need, then what the hell... I already have a few PCs anyway. What's one more, if I can load 5-10 times (at least) as much?

So many variants, so many unknowns, so much uncertainty. But hey, at least no body can say these are dull and unexciting times

I'm not near ready to go the Vista route or recommend it to anyone. In truth, I had no business at all even going to the Vision DAW webpage, except that EWQLSO-PLAY will be here shortly after the 15th. Had they not talked about having nearly the whole 194GB library running on one machine I wouldn't have blinked. But even EW chose XP Pro x64 and not Vista.

Dunno, Ferdi-- I'm hanging with the feline operating systems for now.

Simsy · Post by **Simsy** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:55 am

Hi Frodo,

Yeah I am looking at putting together a PC that will take 32 GB RAM and installing XP64 so I can access all the RAM. At the moment there is no 64 bit VE version for the mac and so I wouldn't be able to access all the RAM.

On top of that, Vienna said that they will be releasing MIR soon (within a few months), this will connect into VE3 and be the perfect partner, the thing is they have stated that it is only for PC. So I would like to get a machine ready that I can then add MIR to.

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:39 am

Simsy wrote:Hi Frodo,

Yeah I am looking at putting together a PC that will take 32 GB RAM and installing XP64 so I can access all the RAM. At the moment there is no 64 bit VE version for the mac and so I wouldn't be able to access all the RAM.

On top of that, Vienna said that they will be releasing MIR soon (within a few months), this will connect into VE3 and be the perfect partner, the thing is they have stated that it is only for PC. So I would like to get a machine ready that I can then add MIR to.

Very good points all around, Simsy. For all the wonderful developments with Mac hardware and with OSX, the PC retains considerable support and an important place in DAW work. If I were to even entertain the notion of getting MIR, I'd have some serious thinking to do where adding a stealthy PC or two could not be avoided.

I would hope that Mac support for MIR would be in the works sooner than later, but there's no question that some developers are apparently having an easier time with XP64.