Pianoteq 2.3 is out (major improvement) + Special Pricing

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:59 pm

I installed Pianoteq 2.3 last night, and it greatly improves the built-in reverb effects as well as the stereo imaging problems that I described in an unrelated post last week.

They have also just announced a Group Buy during the entire month of July, with "worst case" price as 229 (vs. the usual 249) euros, and "best case" price at 179 euros.

There is also a new harpsichord add-on for Pianoteq, which just got posted today so I haven't tried it yet (maybe later tonight, after rehearsal).

David Polich · Post by **David Polich** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:21 pm

Thanks for the heads up, Mark! Man, I haven't updated since version 2.0.1.
Yes, 2.2.3 is a major improvement, particularly the new "C2" grand. This is the full-bodied, big grand I've been hoping to get for some time.

Stereo image is indeed improved, the stereo width control really works now.
The EQ and reverb sound better.

I checked out the harpsircord - it's great. The CP80 isn't bad either - it just needs some attention to velocity, EQ, and hammer hardness response. After twenty minutes with it I have the best CP80 I've ever had (except for a real CP-80). Certainly beats the pants off any sampled CP80's I've met.

These guys just keep getting better.

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:53 pm

Version 2.2.3 is quite recent, but 2.3 was just updated again today for some reason so I re-downloaded and re-installed. It might have been taken off the site briefly if they were updating it for some oversight, so you may not have gotten the very most recent version if your update is 2.2.3 (though even that version already contained many of the improvements).

I'm busy downloading Vienna Instruments' electric guitar library, which I finally bought today after the dollar rose a bit against the euro. Hopefully I can try that new harpsichord patch in Pianoteq later tonight. Like organs, each harpsichord is a unique instrument, and so one can never have too many of them (I must have over half a dozen harpsichord libraries by now, and almost as many church organ libraries).

Thanks for the heads-up on improving the CP80 model, but do remember that part of the CP70/CP80 sound was the individual piezo mic on each string, which would be kind of hard to model I think. Again, it depends on whether you're going for the player perspective or the audience perspective. If the former, then the Pianoteq model can come awfully close -- otherwise Prominy has the sound nailed for the audience perspective.

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:03 am

I was able to bring up Pianoteq in standalone mode even with the browser and downloads running, so just gave that harpsichord a quick test, and it is indeed an amazing replica! Missing key-off sounds and such, but I'm betting I could tweak it to include some of that, once I am running a dedicated Pianoteq session without other distractions.

The lower register is a little less convincing, both in terms of timbre and sustain. But really, only the lowest three notes (and I didn't check to make sure whether those are part of the normal harpsichord range or not -- though there is no universal range that covers all harpsichords).

Eleventh Hour Sound · Post by **Eleventh Hour Sound** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:08 pm

Wow, at todays rate 170 Euros is $279... not cheap... Do you guys think it compares to Ivory?

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:34 pm

Surely you remember that discussion from last year?

.

In fact, I printed it out and re-read it just the other night. It made an even more interesting read a year later.

As I mentioned elsewhere, I occasionally find myself using the GEM RP-x hybrid sampling/modeling engine for certain rock music contexts, to cut through the mix properly. And for certain classical work where the piano is at backstage (conceptually and via reverb applied during mixing), I will sometimes use VSL Bosendorfer due to how it blends with orchestras.

I have lost whatever interest I once had in Ivory. The connectedness of notes, phrasing, realism across the entire keybed of the string resonance and other physical modeling, make GEM DRAKE technology and Pianoteq the only choices that convince me I am playing a real piano vs. triggering notes.

But this is specifically a posting about the new update and the Group Buy, so let's keep the Ivory discussions elsewhere

. I am glad they made the Fazioli available separately with a standalone engine though.

Eleventh Hour Sound · Post by **Eleventh Hour Sound** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:09 pm

Yes, I remember our discussion from last year.

When I listened to the demos at the time, to my taste I was not impressed... It had kind of a snythy Roland MKS-20 Piano module sound to it...

In my experience, most group buys are almost a no brainer, a deal you can't refuse... $279 seemed a little on the high side, so my first instinct is to compare it to what I consider the gold standard of pianos. We've all got our own perspectives.

I listened to a couple of the more recent mp3 demos. I can see how it fits well into a mix. It still sounds a little synthy to me, I'll have to try it to know for sure.

mhschmieder wrote:Surely you remember that discussion from last year? .

In fact, I printed it out and re-read it just the other night. It made an even more interesting read a year later.

As I mentioned elsewhere, I occasionally find myself using the GEM RP-x hybrid sampling/modeling engine for certain rock music contexts, to cut through the mix properly. And for certain classical work where the piano is at backstage (conceptually and via reverb applied during mixing), I will sometimes use VSL Bosendorfer due to how it blends with orchestras.

I have lost whatever interest I once had in Ivory. The connectedness of notes, phrasing, realism across the entire keybed of the string resonance and other physical modeling, make GEM DRAKE technology and Pianoteq the only choices that convince me I am playing a real piano vs. triggering notes.

But this is specifically a posting about the new update and the Group Buy, so let's keep the Ivory discussions elsewhere . I am glad they made the Fazioli available separately with a standalone engine though.

monkey man · Post by **monkey man** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:37 am

Hey Mark, I well remember the discussion, as well as your positive comments about the GEM DRAKE technology.
I even tried to order a GEM at the time, but the stores I rang couldn't figure out who to order it from.
The unit was projected to cost an arm and a leg here though - $1295+ AFAICR.

My old P-50m is getting a little long in the tooth, so the GEM is tempting as a replacement piano module, especially if it still stands up in your book.

I take it the Motif is stronger in the EP department, but surely the XS piano sounds should be OK too?
Sorry for all the questions lately.

David Polich · Post by **David Polich** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:11 am

The Motif XS EP's are great. The stock acoustic pianos are very good as well.

That was indeed a long discussion we had last year about Pianoteq vs. Uvory/Akoustik Piano/The Grand/True Pianos. I know many will still swear by thier fave sampled piano and will never like Pianoteq. I've been enthusiastic about Pianoteq since day one, and the latest version sounds almost twice as good.

I re-installed Ivory a few weeks ago and used it on a few things, but am now back happily with Pianoteq. Both VI's have their place. I guess I just enjoy playing Pianoteq a lot more. It feels like an instrument instead of triggering a bunch of snapshots.

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:27 pm

Yes, the Motif XS electric pianos are one of its biggest strengths, sounding very organic and fluid and warm, with a lot of bite and bark when you need it.

As you know, there were many models of Wurlies and Rhodes over the years, so it doesn't hurt to have multiple sources and/or emulations.

In other words, both Motif XS and GEM RP-x are excellent for electric pianos (the latter is 100% modeled whilst the former is 100% sampled).

For acoustic pianos, the Motif XS line (presumably including the upcoming rack unit) now includes the string resonance and related "presence" and "realism" add-ons from the S90 ES. My understanding is that these are modeled as effects that are available to other sounds as well, which could help realism of other instruments (hammered dulcimer?).

I went through the waveform list of the XS thoroughly last night and compared it to both the ES and the CS6x. The biggest surprise for me was that the XS has about eight times as many drum samples. The other area of exponential growth is sound effects and other specialised sounds that open up endless possibilities for sound design vs. just the standard stock acoustic-emulation and analog synth type waveforms.

I personally don't care much for Yamaha pianos, but they are nevertheless in my top five or six and I do find they can work well in a band setting (I just don't like them soloed or for classical work). You probably realise that ANY product from Yamaha is going to EXCLUSIVELY sample Yamaha pianos; whereas most other products will focus on Steinway, Fazioli, Bechstein, Bosendorfer, and maybe Yamaha as well.

Yamaha now owns Bosendorfer, so it will be interesting to see if they start including Bosendorfer piano samples in future digital products.

BTW, the new harpsichord model in Pianoteq 2.3 (an add-on, actually, and it works with earlier versions), is part of an historic keyboard restoration project that Modartt is collaborating and participating in. There WILL be other historic keyboards modeled as time goes on, and I find this very exciting. I can hardly wait to start working with the Grimaldi and see how I can improve the stock sound with the additional parameters.

monkey man · Post by **monkey man** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:59 am

Thank you David and Mark for your thoughts.

Sounds like this new-fangled rack could kick my XV-5080 into next week.

Great news all 'round - never had a decent EP sound before, for instance.
I do feel that the fact that my ROMplers haven't inspired me for many years isn't helping my situation any.

If this rack does indeed blow the Roland away, it'd be mighty tempting to replace the latter, along with the P50-m, with 2 or three Yammy units.
I've had trouble selling stuff second hand of late, and so have sufficient items still left to almost cover it should I be able to sell them.
Originally I'd have wanted to go with 2 units, but I expected 6 outs as opposed to 4 (2 stereo pairs).
Three units would therefore give me 6 stereo pairs to mix live in DP (mainly for the MWEQ, ProVerb and the LA2A sim), and (I think) an adequate number of instrument groups to make this practical.
FWIW, they'd be my only sound source apart from a single VL unit for lead sax etc.

There'd be one pair each for:
Piano/EP
Synth, lead, pads & SFX (using the Motif FX only and summed to this pair)
Guitars or drums (Mainly dance using the Motif FX, as the TD doesn't do these very well, IMHO)
Percussion
Brass
Orchestra

... or something like that.

Would this be silly? Simplicity is paramount for me at this stage.
Oh, and just how quick will multiset dumps be (on my Roland, it takes minutes if you alter any sounds, which isn't kosher for me)?
I'd like to be able to assign the units each an ID, spit the sysex out of DP and have 'em ready to rock... in seconds.
Doable? Am I mad?... actually, disregard that last question.

Whaddaya think, guys?

Oh, and David, it sounds like you've done a bang-up job with the soundset yet again.
Well done mate!

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:28 pm

I looked over the specs more deeply last night, and notice that there;'s some pretty intricate stuff going on with the drum voices to make them more responsive and realistic. That is, there are some brand-new features in the XS that are specific to drums, apart from the quality of the programming itself.

As for EP's, I think part of the motivation for the analog-modeling effects was to be able to have better effected e-pianos (and most people use e-pianos effected vs. dry). This gives them an edge up even on some of the better sample libraries (although I haven't yet made use of Scarbee's effects, as up until recently they crashed on my computer).

dmacintyre · Post by **dmacintyre** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:52 am

I nearly got caught up in this one (I see the words, "group buy", and my heart rate increases!!!). However, looking into it, even at the best price under the group buy, it's still cheaper at it's regular everyday price at some big online stores like Sweetwater and AudioMidi.com. Probably the strong Euro or something. Just in case anyone was feeling rushed to commit to it on the 1st July. Great product though.

D.

monkey man · Post by **monkey man** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:52 am

Thank you for your thoughts once again, Mark.

It occurred to me today that an M-LAN board fitted to the rack could possibly feed an M-LAN to audio converter, thus giving 8 stereo pairs from the single rack.
Assuming I'm right in thinking that there are 8 simultaneously affected sounds allowed by the rack unit, this would square nicely with the stereo pairs (I'd not run reverb in the Yamaha ideally, but add it in DP's mixer).
Without the converter (M-LAN only) the signals wouldn't facilitate CueMix monitoring, FWIW, so that's why I'm seeking a means of maximising outs this way.

Any thoughts, anyone (and you, mark!)?
Am I missing something obvious?

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:18 pm

Oh, I bought Pianoteq so long ago that I didn't know they were now also being sold through other channels other than direct sales.

Yeah, it's a funny thing with the euro these days. I bought an excellent FM7/FM8 library from Rob Papen yesterday for $25, which was posted also as 25 euros. He's centred in Netherlands so the euro price is clearly the base price, and he apparently has been too busy preparing his new synths to update his US prices.