A Beatles Virtual Instrument

Discussion of Digital Performer use, optimization, tips and techniques on MacOS.

Moderator: James Steele

Forum rules
This forum is for most discussion related to the use and optimization of Digital Performer [MacOS] and plug-ins as well as tips and techniques. It is NOT for troubleshooting technical issues, complaints, feature requests, or "Comparative DAW 101."
User avatar
Frodo
Posts: 15598
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: The Shire

Post by Frodo »

Beatles To A Tee Volume 2

Just got through looking at this video in time to receive a very nice reply from the host, Rob Taylor. Some of what he mentions in his e-mail is more significant than almost anything I might have said had I written a review before reading his message-- so I'll start with a few things that came directly from the source.

Volume 2 is laid out in a similar fashion to Volume 1, which is a good thing. It's a longer video with a few more musical goodies and accompanying historical tidbits.

RE: John's Rickenbacker 325's-- all models @ 5/8 scale---
FRODO: Did you find the Rickenbacker 325 particularly problematic to play? The chord fingerings seem as knuckle twisting as they did in Lennon's hands. Is it easier to play? Harder?

ROB: Sort of. Not particularly problematic. I find the neck a bit small for my liking. That goes for the Miami and the C58. I don't mind playing them for the DVD's for obvious reasons. I actually prefer the Miami over the '58 because for me, it just seems to be more versatile tone-wise. They are cool guitars but I'd probably go for a full length neck for my personal choice.
The "Miami" model he talks about is John's second Rick 325. The model seen on Sullivan for the first time was his blond 325 1958 Capri painted black with amber pick guard. The guitar was falling apart, and the following week when Sullivan did the second broadcast from Miami Beach, John was shown (and bought) the thinner 325 with a white pick guard-- used on the second Sullivan broadcast for the first time and soon after used in the film "A Hard Day's Night" which began shooting just weeks after the Sullivan appearances.

The full-length version Rob speaks of is the 350 model.

Lennon's Ric 325 collection:

Capri 1958-- blond, then painted black
"Miami" 1964-- black
325-12--- black (Beatles For Sale sessions and limited live performances)
325 fireglo with f-hole (also called the "Beatle Backer")
FRODO: What were the other acoustic guitars you used on volume 1 besides the 160E (nylon and 12-string)? I kept thinking [you had the] "Ramirez and Framus, but no way....". Way?

ROB: I can't recall the nylon on V.1. I didn't own one at the time and borrowed that from a buddy of mine who owns Motor City Guitar. The 12-string used for V.2 on Help! was actually a Taylor, again borrowed from MCG. The six string in I've just seen a face was an Epiphone Texan that I borrowed from another buddy.
It was remarkable to learn that while John *might have* laid a track for the song "Help!" with his J-160, the character of the acoustic guitar for that tune is the result of his using his Framus "Hootenanny" 12-string acoustic. I never gave this much thought until it was mentioned-- then it hit me-- "of course, there's a 12-string in there!".

small epiphanies = much joy

So, George's Ramirez Guitarra de Studio was replaced with an unknown nylon. The Epiphone Texan was spot on with Paul's Texan, and John's 12-string Framus "Hootenanny" was substituted with an unspecified Taylor. I mention this because the guitar models contribute so much to the authenticity of the sound....

In some case where the acoustic guitars are concerned, replacements seem to work just fine. In other cases there remains a hauntingly familiar character with the actual guitars the Beatles used that may be hard to substitute. In Volume 2, for example, Rob formally introduces the Gibson J200, which was the guitar George used primarily on "Here Comes The Sun". There was no getting around the sound of it capo'd very high. Once again, it was spot on accurate. Once again, Paul's Texan for "Yesterday" and his Martin D28 on "Blackbird" and "I Will" are more exposed than, say, the acoustics on "I've Just Seen A Face", and using other instruments may be a small but a clearly informed decision.

Other instruments formally introduced in volume 2 were:

-- Epiphone Casino tobacco sunburst. This was casually used in one or two demos in volume 1, but not formally discussed until volume 2. Rob explains the differences among the three owned by Paul, John, and George-- which had the Bigsby vibrato and which had the stock "trapezoid" tailpieces. Both Casinos in the video had stock tailpieces, but I was eager to find an example of the Bigsby in use.

--Gretsch DuoJet. This was George's first and allegedly favorite Gretsch electric. Any Gretsch heard prior to "She Loves You" was the DuoJet-- and can be specifically detected on "Roll Over Beethoven", "I Saw Her Standing There", and "From Me To You".

--Gretsch 6119-1963HT. Like the Casino sunburst, this appeared in volume one, but was not discussed until Volume 2. Taylor mentions its appearances in the film "Help!", but doesn't cite distinctions between it and the similar Country Gent 6122 model. Upon hearing the demos, one notices that for all their similarities there are important sonic differences that contribute one again to the character of the songs on which they were used respectively in the studio. For live performances it might have made less of a difference, except for the important "signature look" these instruments lent to the group's image. This would be particularly true when one considers that few could actually hear them in a live concert, including the Beatles themselves!

--Fender Strat. Rob explains that two "sonic blue" strats were purchased by John and George and used for the first time in the studio double-tracking the "Nowhere Man" lead. Rob thought it would be interesting to have the painted "Rocky" model for the video, but he stresses that they were still solid "sonic blue" when they were first used and not painted until the Pepper-Mystery Tour-All You Need Is Love era.

--Fender Telecaster-- rosewood, ca. 1968. This was the dark brown Tele that George used on the last 2-3 albums and can be seen most prominently in the "Let It Be" rooftop concert. This is not to be confused with Paul's tobacco sunburst Tele "Esquire" model used on the "Revolver" sessions as well as "Helter Skelter" and "Good Morning".

Used, but not formally introduced:

Gibson SG Standard-- another one of George's faves.

Noteworthy Moments from Vol 2.

I like the fact that Rob is not doing each video album by album but is using overviews from early to late periods. It really becomes more obvious how and why the Beatles' sound changed.

For example, it is known that Donovan was in India with the gang just before the "White Album" was recorded. Suddenly, you see Paul's acoustic picking style changed from his characteristic thumb and index finger only to something much more complex on "Blackbird" and "I Will". This was the result of Donovan imparting finger picking secrets to both Paul and John.

In the case of John, one particular picking style appears in two incarnations. Who would have thought? But listen to "Julia" and then listen to "Dear Prudence". It's the same multi-finger picking at times on each-- which was not at all characteristic of John's strumming before that time.

Taxman and the solos on The End were particular favorites of mine. Boy, do I have a lot of homework to do! I also loved the breakdown of the opening chord to "A Hard Day's Night". In addition to all the guitars used, did you know they also used a piano to pull this off?

The "Roll Over Beethoven" solo breakdown was a major plus!! Wow.

There was also a bit of discussion of an octave pedal being used to accomplished one effect. I can't remember which song at the moment, but apparently John used it with it set to double an octave lower, forcing him to play an octave higher-- which at one point put him at the very end of the finger board.

Edit-- the tune was "Dear Prudence" for the solo- and it was actually done on Volume 1.

There's not much else to say that hasn't already been said about the DVD itself-- Volume 2 is a great success.

But Rob fed me a little interesting teaser:
We're chipping away at V.4. We've got a ways to go yet but it's coming. Cheers!
No mention of what tunes are being included, but who cares? I'll take it-- :lol:

Also--
Upon completion of V.4, I'm toying with the idea of 'updating' 1 & 2. That's quite a project and it will take a while but I hope to have everything down to a science by then.
Interesting that he offered this tidbit without being asked! I found certain minor aspects of Volume 2 production value a little better. The video was clearer and it became obvious that the "hazy" quality was intentionally done to give the video a certain 60's antiquity. The sound, of course, was great.

I suspect Volume 3 will be even better than its predecessors-- and from the preview vids I'm eager to see the addition of the realtime fingerboard graphics not included in the first two volumes. There are chord changes and tab shortcuts in real time on all volumes, however.

This is good stuff.

Volume 3 review to come...
User avatar
Frodo
Posts: 15598
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: The Shire

Post by Frodo »

Beatles To A Tee, Volume 3

This installment was no less enjoyable than the previous two, and it had an even tighter presentation by the addition of real time fretboard graphics, which were extremely helpful.

On the first two volumes, the slow demos were played in real time and a little out of tempo. In volume three, the original video was slowed down with no change to the pitches. This gave the slow demos a better sense of time, but I didn't really find the previous volumes at all confusing. Volume 3 also includes much more detailed indexing to jump to any slow demo, to any narrative, or to any real time performance.

Another nice addition is that different guitar parts are panned left and right for easier isolation. When three guitars are used, the third guitar appears down the middle-- ie: a solo that might not play all the way through the track. In any case, the extra separation is very nice.

There were no new guitars introduced, per se, except:

1 John's Rickenbacker 325 Capri 1958
2. Paul's "tobacco sunburst" Casino with Bigsby.

For the diversity of tones required for this presentation, Rob found it easier to employ the use of the Vox Tonelab pedal, but stressed that there was no real substitute for the real thing. Given that some of the methods which had to be used were simply not available, I can understand his point. It's also VERY difficult to argue with his stellar results.

Rob offers a bit about his preferred strings. He says that most of the guitars used Pyramid Gold flatwound 10's or 11's, but he did not specify which guitars used 10's and which used 11's, but one could guess which guitars used the thinner strings where the pitch bending was a whole step or more.

He also mentioned Phosphor Bronze 11's on the Gibson J-160 for those characteristic ringing, chiming overtones heard on Lennon's tracks with a hard pick.

Among the high points:

Twist and Shout-- a remarkably accurate display of the differences between the choices of fingerings and chord voices used by John and George even where their parts sounded nearly identical. The both play the solo in thirds-- and they each play double stops but on different strings and frets.

Hard Day's Night-- the opening chord was talked about a little bit as one of the bonus tracks on Volume 2, but much more detail is given about how it was achieved and about the whole song in general. Also, some insights as to how the guitar solo was recorded were fascinating. George played his Rick 360-12 in unison with George Martin playing the piano. Both play the part one octave lower at half speed (7.5 ips) then rolled the tape back up to 15 ips.

I should mention that so many of the blues-related tunes on Volume 3 offer a veritable treasure trove of solid, usable guitar riffs that could be varied and used in many so many other contexts. Even among the basics, there were always nice surprises-- new ways of embellishing overused licks, etc. "Kansas City" and "She's A Woman" were real standouts for me.

Dr. Robert-- It was just great that he included this!

Rain-- that sound of two Casinos is unmistakable, but the wild drop and altered tuning was the revelation du jour. The song is in G but the open strings ring as though it were in A. George actually tuned his low E down a major sixth and basically retuned the entire guitar to a G chord to achieve a certain droning quality. John also retuned his guitar to normal intervals but down a whole step-- and fingered the part in the key of A. The results are stunning.

I Dig A Pony-- GREAT guitar parts!!

Revolution-- some may not be aware that the guitars were run directly into board mic inputs and overloaded (two Casinos, according to Rob). To achieve this effect, Rob used an old reel-to-reel deck and overloaded the mic ins similarly. Very convincing. This tune was also originally recorded in A and the tape was later sped up for the faster version, putting it in B. There is much written and visual data to support this theory. I was convinced.

While My Guitar Gently Weeps-- Rob chooses Harrison's original acoustic version from the Anthology and not the Clapton version. This was anything but a disappointment-- and one of the most touching of all the tracks.

There's so much more on this volume to twist and shout about, but there it is. I've got plenty to do before Volume 4 gets here.

finis
User avatar
zed
Posts: 3193
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Vancouver, BC

Post by zed »

Thank for the thorough reports, dear hobbit.

I am in the process of ordering these discs myself. I don't think I can resist, especially since I think my guitar playing would improve profoundly if I spent some time paying more attention to learning the subtleties of these songs.

Not sure about the volume 3 fretboard graphics... they look upside down to me... I think it would be easier to make out the fingerings if the image was from the perspective you the user holding the guitar.

But I can see there is lots of useful and entertaining stuff in these volumes. Not to mention that they look cool. 8)

Volume 4 wishlist:
---------------------
Tell Me What You See
What Goes On
Run For Your Life
She Said, She Said
Happiness is a Warm Gun
Yer Blues
Everybody's Got Something to Hide
Don't Let Me Down
I've Got a Feeling
One After 909
Something
Oh! Darling
Octopus's Garden
I Want You
She Came in Through the Bathroom Window
MacPro 2.8 GHz 8-Core Intel Xeon | 14 GB RAM | OS 10.11.6 | DP 8
User avatar
Frodo
Posts: 15598
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: The Shire

Post by Frodo »

Good point about the fretboard feeling upside down.

I think what he wanted to do was to represent the fretboard objectively in the same way his actual fretboard and fingerings appeared on screen to an objective viewer. There is some merit to that where the brain only has to flip the image once instead of twice. If there were a camera angle from over his shoulder-- say from a first person perspective-- then I'd certainly want the fretboard to be flipped.

I've often wondered if these DVDs might not benefit from a workbook of some sort, but I'm sure the red tape with publishing rights is complicated for any creative property, especially where the Beatles are concerned. It's still overwhelming to see the credits include MacLen, Nothernsongs, Michael Jackson, and a host of others from whom licenses had to be obtained.

But there have been other DVDs and online instructional videos that have necessitated my putting a chair just to the right of the TV so that the screen and I are facing more or less the same direction. A little adjustment helps me to locate a position that only requires the eyes (and not the entire head) move comfortably from my fretboard to his. If you've ever worked with a teacher having to do the brain-flip is always an issue.

I've even been thinking of using Finale to build my own journal with fretboard notation.

For Volume 4-- one tune is an absolute MUST-- "I Wanna Hold Your Hand". I'm putting in my request now for it with the additional plea for details on the amp tones. Zed-- your list of V4 requests is killer! I mean-- where do you stop? I can imagine that song selection is the single most difficult thing for Rob to determine, and he's been at it for five years now.

He could include ANY blues-related tunes for me and I'd be happy. But I want to see some excerpts from Sgt. Pepper-- like "Fixing a Hole", "Good Morning", and perhaps the title track. John and George's notes on the opening to "Matchbox" always blows me away.

Others IN ADDITION to your list:

Bad Boy
It Won't Be Long
Hold Me Tight
I Wanna Be Your Man
I Need You
You're Gonna Lose That Girl
Another Girl
Drive My Car
Norwegian Wood
Michelle
I'm Only Sleeping (the backward solo played forwards!)
Hey Bulldog
Come Together
Something
Back In the USSR
Bungalow Bill intro
Everybody's Got Something To Hide
Helter Skelter
Savoy Truffle
Wild Honey Pie

Many of these songs are less involved note-wise, but I'd be just as interested in a more in-depth chat about how he reproduced the diversity of guitar tones.

But for all the songs that Rob may not get around to breaking down, these vids are forcing me to listen in a different way and may enable me to better parse other tracks on my own.

I think I must have the Vox Tonelab, however.

Oh, what fun. All this and DP6, too.
User avatar
Frodo
Posts: 15598
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: The Shire

Post by Frodo »

Is it too late to include Hello-Goodbye on my list of Vol 4 requests?
User avatar
zed
Posts: 3193
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Vancouver, BC

Post by zed »

Frodo wrote:Is it too late to include Hello-Goodbye on my list of Vol 4 requests?
Well I guess there is still room for one more... why not?! :-)

Hello-Goodbye is one of my favorite songs, but I left it off my list because there is not much terms of difficult guitar parts in it. We could both probably figure out the lead guitar for that song in under 5 minutes... although I'd be interested in comments on the amp/tone settings. I'm curious to know which of the additional songs Rob will actually choose to do.

In Beatle Plugins news, the Brilliance Pack is now available from Abbey Road. You can download a 10 day demo in AU format: http://www.abbeyroadplugins.co.uk/

For some reason the Mastering Pack is still not available in AU format, despite the fact that they stopped Nomad Factory from selling their version due to copyright issues. :?
MacPro 2.8 GHz 8-Core Intel Xeon | 14 GB RAM | OS 10.11.6 | DP 8
User avatar
Frodo
Posts: 15598
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: The Shire

Post by Frodo »

zed wrote: Hello-Goodbye is one of my favorite songs, but I left it off my list because there is not much terms of difficult guitar parts in it. We could both probably figure out the lead guitar for that song in under 5 minutes... although I'd be interested in comments on the amp/tone settings. I'm curious to know which of the additional songs Rob will actually choose to do.
Exactly what I was mentioning earlier. Having seen these DVDs, I was always pleasantly surprised by little secret revelations I never expected. Even Rob spoke of things he took for grant until he began preparing the DVDs. I'm so pleased with these vids as a find that I'm almost beside myself. There's nothing else out there like it.
zed wrote: In Beatle Plugins news, the Brilliance Pack is now available from Abbey Road. You can download a 10 day demo in AU format: http://www.abbeyroadplugins.co.uk/

For some reason the Mastering Pack is still not available in AU format, despite the fact that they stopped Nomad Factory from selling their version due to copyright issues. :?
Thanks for the tip, Z. As you know, the price falls right in with the DP6 update. I also have to finish up with Esoundz as well as finalize my Gretsch deal, but all of the AU format TG plugs will wander this way eventually.

I was wondering how Nomad got away with doing their own emu. It was too good to be true, but I would have sprung for TG in any case. Why do a Beatley project without at least one virtually authentic Abbey Road plugin working for you?
User avatar
zed
Posts: 3193
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Vancouver, BC

Post by zed »

Frodo wrote:I was wondering how Nomad got away with doing their own emu.
Not sure why they weren't allowed to do so. They didn't mention EMI or the Beatles in any of their promo stuff, and the plugin GUI didn't look exactly like the real equipment (and they actually redesigned the GUI to make it look even less like the EMI stuff, after, I presume, someone made a stink about it looking too much like the Abbey Road plugins). Why shouldn't they be allowed to sell an emulation of the gear? And why the heck isn't Abbey Road/Chandler finishing the AU version of their Mastering Pack!?
Frodo wrote:Why do a Beatley project without at least one virtually authentic Abbey Road plugin working for you?
Indeed we must. And these new Brilliance plugs sound good too. I put one of them on a master fader and it made the whole mix sound better (brighter, but with a warm analog character). I can easily see getting a lot of use out of them.

But these plugins do have some problems with DP, requiring you to click things 2 or 3 times on occasion to complete a function. I remember having big issues with PLAY when it was doing this, and I have encountered other plugins that don't seem to play as well with DP as they ought to. I'm really hoping that the new AU standard and supporting architecture that is supposed to be written into DP6 will make most of these problems go away. I've been starting to think it's likely that maybe it is more the DP architecture at fault than that of the third party software developers.

Fingers crossed that these issues disappear when six gets installed! :P
MacPro 2.8 GHz 8-Core Intel Xeon | 14 GB RAM | OS 10.11.6 | DP 8
User avatar
Frodo
Posts: 15598
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: The Shire

Post by Frodo »

zed wrote: But these plugins do have some problems with DP, requiring you to click things 2 or 3 times on occasion to complete a function. I remember having big issues with PLAY when it was doing this, and I have encountered other plugins that don't seem to play as well with DP as they ought to. I'm really hoping that the new AU standard and supporting architecture that is supposed to be written into DP6 will make most of these problems go away. I've been starting to think it's likely that maybe it is more the DP architecture at fault than that of the third party software developers.

Fingers crossed that these issues disappear when six gets installed! :P
Yes. The problem was most likely due to the lack of or limited support for Cocoa graphics protocols as newer plugins follow Apple's UI specs more to the letter. I've got quite a back log of DP UI errors in countless crash reports, so I'm headed into DP6 with great sobriety.

On a similar note-- did I mention that I'm attending some Logic 8 workshops this summer? :wink: First one is next week.

The future still looks good
And you've got time to rectify all the things that you should...
User avatar
rikp
Posts: 737
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: New Yorkshire
Contact:

Post by rikp »

Frodo wrote:
zed wrote: But these plugins do have some problems with DP, requiring you to click things 2 or 3 times on occasion to complete a function. I remember having big issues with PLAY when it was doing this, and I have encountered other plugins that don't seem to play as well with DP as they ought to. I'm really hoping that the new AU standard and supporting architecture that is supposed to be written into DP6 will make most of these problems go away. I've been starting to think it's likely that maybe it is more the DP architecture at fault than that of the third party software developers.

Fingers crossed that these issues disappear when six gets installed! :P
Yes. The problem was most likely due to the lack of or limited support for Cocoa graphics protocols as newer plugins follow Apple's UI specs more to the letter. I've got quite a back log of DP UI errors in countless crash reports, so I'm headed into DP6 with great sobriety.

On a similar note-- did I mention that I'm attending some Logic 8 workshops this summer? :wink: First one is next week.

The future still looks good
And you've got time to rectify all the things that you should...
Frodo:

Let me know what you think of Logic. I really enjoy working with both DP and Logic. I have developed a great work-flow using both programs!


Peace

rikp
http://www.coffeecupmusic.com
Mac Pro 8 Core 22 Gig RAM, 2 Hackintoshes, DP 8, ProTools 11, Logic X, Waves, Kontakt, Vienna Strings, EWQL Platinum, GPO, BFD, Omnishphere, Stylus RMX, Trilogy, Altiverb, DrumCore, EZ Drummer, LASS, HollyWoodwinds, and too much money spent on VI libraries.
User avatar
Frodo
Posts: 15598
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: The Shire

Post by Frodo »

rikp wrote: Frodo:

Let me know what you think of Logic. I really enjoy working with both DP and Logic. I have developed a great work-flow using both programs!


Peace

rikp
I've had Logic since v5 and have used it more as a utility all along. Logic 8 was a step in the right direction, I think, although some things still take more effort to pull off than they do in DP.

Even with Logic 8, the Environments are still fairly intimidating for me. Creating customs is something I've not been inspired to do-- have tried to do it, but got annoyed with the hours of setup. Someone recently did a special Environment to improve the workflow between VSL and Logic Score.

Image

I mean, I see the point, but crimminey bananas.

While waiting for DP 6/6.1, I felt I should take the ownership of L8 more seriously by digging deeper into its underbelly.

"And I thought they smelled bad on the outside!!
~Han Solo
Century
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:50 am
Primary DAW OS: Unspecified

Post by Century »

I don't know if this has been discussed in the pervious 95 pages but I have had great enjoyment from abbey roads limiter plug-in. To my ears it is the closet to true Beatle squashdom. I've also had a brief time with the brilliance plug-in and it seems to be able to do some sweet things to the high end. I looked up the box in "recording the Beatles" and it was used on most of their tracks...I think they said they had a 10 db at 10K setting on drums and guitars.
Lastly, the IK group buy recently included the ringo drum loops and they are OK if you like the early stuff. So far my experience is that there are not enough fills to construct a believable track. You will get a laugh out of the recreation of "Come Together" Match it with the FAb Four bass and you are in Beatlemania if you can get the hair right. A side note...the Bonzo drums are better and lack the variations but have that sound. Take care.
Jay
User avatar
zed
Posts: 3193
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Vancouver, BC

Post by zed »

Century wrote:I don't know if this has been discussed in the pervious 95 pages but I have had great enjoyment from abbey roads limiter plug-in. To my ears it is the closet to true Beatle squashdom.
Hey Century! Welcome to the Beatle thread! I tried out the Abbey Road limiter plugin a couple of times, and agree that it has that squashing sound that other limiter plugins don't seem to have. Haven't yet forked out the dough for it yet. I think the Abbey Road plugins are kinda over priced. If they would offer a special package deal for all the plugs, I might bite. Holding off until then.
Century wrote:I've also had a brief time with the brilliance plug-in and it seems to be able to do some sweet things to the high end. I looked up the box in "recording the Beatles" and it was used on most of their tracks...I think they said they had a 10 db at 10K setting on drums and guitars.
Hey, thanks for that. I have Recording the Beatles but I hadn't yet looked up the brilliance devices and seen what it says about the settings they used. When I tried out the demo I managed to come pretty close to simulating the sounds using MWEQ and paying attention to the EQ points and the sound of the bell curve. I will try out the 10db at 10K on some of my drum and guitar tracks. :-)

Century wrote:Lastly, the IK group buy recently included the ringo drum loops and they are OK if you like the early stuff. So far my experience is that there are not enough fills to construct a believable track.
Actually those Ringo loops can easily sound like later Beatle stuff if you put some compression on them. I used some T-RackS compression on the loops and definitely heard some of that later Ringo magic.

As far as constructing believable tracks, that is admittedly more work, and the more stuff that you have in that vein, the better. The Bonzo and Motown loops actually work quite well with those RingBeats. And if you have DrumCore and its 8GB loop collection you will find many more useful fills. When you find something that works, you can make it fit in better with those RingBeats by simply swapping a few key hits in the fill with the snare or tom from the RingBeats. A bit more effort, but it can be done, and sounds fantastic when you've finished (and also keeps your drum tracks unique).
Century wrote:A side note...the Bonzo drums are better and lack the variations but have that sound.
I love the sound of the Bonzo drums! But again, you can get the RingBeats to sound almost exactly like that by taking the OH loops and applying a good dose of compression. A yummy sound, for sure.

I can't wait to try out the new DP6 limiter/compressor on the drum tracks. :P
MacPro 2.8 GHz 8-Core Intel Xeon | 14 GB RAM | OS 10.11.6 | DP 8
Century
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:50 am
Primary DAW OS: Unspecified

Post by Century »

Hi Zed,

I got the abbey road limiter at highprofileaudio.com. He had a decent discount at the time. Maybe he still is discounting it. It's my favorite compressor/limiter for voice and drums. He wrote to me that the brilliance pack will only be sold from Abbey Road for the time being.

As for the Ringbeats loops, I wasn't thrilled with the patterns so far. If I throw that limiter on them they will sound the way I would like but it's kind of mersey beat from what I hear so far.. Do you know anything about the Ken Scott project (drums) ?

I used the Bonzo loop on one song and the feel carried me into real
creative space but I'm struggling to grind out some variations. I haven't tried Ringbeats for fills on this but Bonzo's are pretty limited for fills.

As for Beatles stuff several years ago I longed for a telefunken V72 preamp so that I could perhaps get a little of the Beatles' tone. I got a pair and they are beautiful . I don't know how they held up for 50 years since they were built.. I don't need to dance and upgrade every few months due to a software upgrade and deal with the accompanying problems...well of course, I do but my V72's just sit there and smile.
Jay

Jay
User avatar
Frodo
Posts: 15598
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: The Shire

Post by Frodo »

Speaking of RingBeats, I've been remiss in not mentioning that the person for whom that was named just had a birthday yesterday (7-7-08)!!
Post Reply