The DP6 Countdown Thread

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Frodo
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Post by Frodo »

The delays are a double-edged sword for all, and any malfunctions with DP6's first incarnation will clearly "draw blood". The longer the wait, the higher the stakes. Honestly, I do not envy MOTU at the moment.

But we have a landmark event coming up, being Summer NAMM in a couple of weeks. If MOTU puts in a face there we are likely to have some sort of progress report from MOTU as well as the show's attendees.

Just glancing over the long archive of threads citing DP5 issues, we're seeing the same reports again and again about save errors, tracks disappearing, projects not opening, volume surges, lack of side-chaining, questionable VI behaviors, project import/export, crashes of a sort, etc. To that I'd also add the various DAE limitations. Word gets around fast, and any continuing trouble with Digidesign compatibility will certainly not win any awards with users of any DAW, DP or otherwise. In fact, if PT users catch wind that this shiny new DP to come still doesn't work properly under DAE it could do a lot of damage to morale where users of other DAWs (and dealers as well) might suggest to those seeking a good DAW that DP6 might not be in their best interest-- whether that's fair and accurate-- or not. Opinions can be harsh and first impressions in the context of an already "interesting" history can be difficult to change.

I'll even go further to say that the stakes are even higher since the release of Logic 8. Whatever aspects of Logic 8 remain unfavorable, so many people (even those on this forum) considered Apple's efforts in the DAW world a wake-up call of sorts for MOTU. Again-- it might be a fair assessment or it may not be-- but market impression accounts for much.

The most positive thing about all of this is that DP6's list of promised improvements (for me, anyway) could likely cancel out all the times MOTU has claimed not to be able to reproduce a certain reported problem with current and previous versions of DP. If DP6 is "late", it means that MOTU is indeed "reproducing problems" to get them fixed-- and that's a good thing, imho.

Let them hash it out-- let them hash it ALL out. DP6 will only be worth the wait if it delivers as promised. Should they unleash it if it's half-baked? Or should they release their very best effort? The GUI face-lift is one thing, but if VI pre-rendering doesn't work as well as it does with other DAWs which have had this feature for a long time now the DAW world could be quickly ablaze with questions about whether MOTU is in over its head or behind the curve-- whether true or false, fair or unfair. At present, we can only claim that they are late-- which, for MOTU, may be the lesser of two evils.

DP users are also among the most forgiving people in the world. When DP6 is kicking butt, those who waited will forget all about the agony as they revel in the ecstasy!

Okay, everyone--- back to the agony! :wink:
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Bill OC

Post by Bill OC »

As one who worked in book and software publishing for much of my life, I still cannot fathom a company that announces a product for the first quarter, and then says absolutely nothing into June.

To quote the robot in Lost in Space: "It does not compute."
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kassonica
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Post by kassonica »

Bill OC wrote:As one who worked in book and software publishing for much of my life, I still cannot fathom a company that announces a product for the first quarter, and then says absolutely nothing into June.

To quote the robot in Lost in Space: "It does not compute."
'Warning warning Will Robertson' I hope not.

I think Mr Frodo has yet again put it into rational perspective,
The longer the wait, the higher the stakes. Honestly, I do not envy MOTU at the moment.
Spot on and we are seeing this here.

Ah your insight and perspective are always a joy to read dear Hobbit.

I can only imagine what wonderful music you must create with this talent.
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Post by Bill OC »

I pretty much agree with Frodo's thoughtful post, too.

But by their total silence they are painting themselves into a corner, "raising the stakes" even higher.

IMHO MOTU should let some of the pressure out of the balloon, and make *some* statement--even if a vanilla press release. And, there's the matter of common courtesy to their customers. MOTU customers may be a forgiving lot, but "going to ground" is not exactly putting their best foot forward for *expanding* the user base.
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Post by Frodo »

Ah, Sir Kass-- your words are too kind. I try to muse as objectively as I can. The wait certainly creates angst among the eager, of which I am one, and yet we still stand in queue with all the hope of a kid during the holiday toy season.

I do agree that there are oddities with the whole date issue. There is such a thin line between an official announced release date and a projected release date. Certainly, announcing a projected date keeps people checking in daily. In the most positive sense, it is very effective advertising that generates and regenerates curiosity and interest over time with minimum effort and monitoring (and expense?).

On the other hand, I think we all understand some measure of the complexities involved with software rewrites. We've all missed deadlines before, and we've all placed quantity and speed above quality with a full understanding of the trade-offs... and we all know the results of this approach.

So what are the options:

1. Don't tell anyone that a new version is the works.

-- Do people get the impression that development has stagnated or that the company that makes your most favored software is disinterested or entirely out of the loop?

2. Announce a date and meet the deadline no matter what.

-- Many companies do this with full knowledge that the software is not ready to deliver just for the sake of having another release under their belts. M5v1 is a good example. Audio streaming was one of its biggest selling points before it appeared. Its release was delayed and yet it took another year or so without announcements before it supported streaming. Until then, samples were loaded into RAM, placing huge limits on its use with the Macs of the time which held 2GB RAM or less. I waited until streaming was fully supported before buying M5v1. Curiously, M5v2 was a long time coming as the ills of v1 took an awful beating in the blogosphere.

3. Tell people that a new version is in the works but don't mention a projected or official release date.

-- Oh, yeah. This will go over well. (Not!) The term "vaporwear" finds instant justification where an extended development and testing period are at issue.

4. Similar to #3, but sustain eager and open communications with users.

-- This is what EW has done with PLAY. This approach is not without its frustrations for both developers or interested customers. Just reading the soundsonline threads where products were announced without projected release dates has been met with the eternal question: "Is there a release date"? The upside is that there is considerable positivity and patience expressed by users even as some users ran out and invested in new machines and gobs of RAM well over a year ago thinking that the release date was more imminent than it was. In the interim, meaner and greener machines were released by Apple and many wished they'd waited before upgrading their hardware as the software kept "not arriving".

5. Tell users that a new version is energetically in development-- give a 12-week release date window, miss the deadline, and then say nothing more about it.

-- Sound familiar? I don't think MOTU has to air its developmental laundry, but let's face it: they said Q1 and we're nigh on Q3. While their progress can be considered as "need to know", there remains a certain customer loyalty where certain info could be disseminated on a "want to know" basis. It's just good for consumer relations.

MOTU RSS Feeds:

26 Feb 08-- Oscar buzz
22 Oct 07-- Unleash Leopard in your studio
18 Oct 07-- AES buzz
09 Aug 07-- MachFive v2 released
27 June 07-- Fortune 500
20 June 07-- DP 5.12 released

(Only one update this year?)

Conspicuously absent RSS feeds:

DP 5.13
VH3D
VH4D
838mk3
8pre
Driver updates

...and...

DP6 info to the extent of what was officially circulated in their own press releases back in January.

There are pros and cons all around no matter which marketing strategy is taken, but making updated announcements is just not a priority for MOTU, unfortunately.

Just knowing that it's coming for 5-6 months is a very thin nail on which to hang one's hat. But, it's coming-- and it just might work when it arrives! :wink:

So, in the spirit of the Lost in Space robot, let's say a prayer for DP6--- bow your heads and repeat after me:

one-zero-zero-zero-one-one-zero-one-zero
zero-one-one-zero-zero-one-zero-zero-one.

Amen.
:P
Last edited by Frodo on Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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kassonica
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Post by kassonica »

Bill OC wrote:I pretty much agree with Frodo's thoughtful post, too.

But by their total silence they are painting themselves into a corner, "raising the stakes" even higher.

IMHO MOTU should let some of the pressure out of the balloon, and make *some* statement--even if a vanilla press release. And, there's the matter of common courtesy to their customers. MOTU customers may be a forgiving lot, but "going to ground" is not exactly putting their best foot forward for *expanding* the user base.
Maybe thats/it's the point.

There always been a very secretive company that doesn't give anything away.

Why WHO KNOWS seems strange to me but meh it has worked for them in the past but you can't annoy your customers forever with your silence on such matters.
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Post by bradswan »

Going to Motu's web site is not a very encouraging experience.
DP is at the bottom of the displayed products (might not have any significance) and at the very bottom of the page is the DP 5.12 announcement dated 6-20-2007 (why is that still there?). I'd like to see them update the website and maybe show a little more enthusiasm for DP.
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Post by kassonica »

snow leopard has been announced by steve jobs

More shortly
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Post by Frodo »

bradswan wrote:Going to Motu's web site is not a very encouraging experience.
DP is at the bottom of the displayed products (might not have any significance) and at the very bottom of the page is the DP 5.12 announcement dated 6-20-2007 (why is that still there?). I'd like to see them update the website and maybe show a little more enthusiasm for DP.
kassonica wrote:snow leopard has been announced by steve jobs

More shortly
Yeah, I've been following Macworld's WDCC blog. Interesting stuff going on.

But this has me thinking: Snow Leopard. Hmm.

This will either kick Carbon die hard developers in the butt to get software 100% into Cocoa-- or it will kick them to the curb.

Imagine the struggle for MOTU to get DP5's kinks ironed out in Tiger, then to be hit with Leopard-- all in the pre-wake of Snow Leopard that may not even support DP6 (unless DP6 is free of Carbon frameworks...).

What if--- (not to ruin anyone's day or anything...) but what if MOTU is entertaining the notion of not releasing DP6 in favor of rewriting it to lose all Carbon frameworks?

UPDATE:
Contrary to rumors that Apple would drop PowerPC architecture support with its newest OS, a tipster and possible Apple insider was able to get his hands on the most recent build of the yet-to-be released 10.6, and found some evidence that Cupertino might be keeping the chip alive....
http://gizmodo.com/5014251/source-os-x- ... erpc-chips

So now, I need to figure out why 10.6 is even being announced just 8 months after 10.5 was released. There is so much software that is barely 10.5-compatible at all. Does this mean that 10.5 was a mere stop-gap? It just feels as if we're not arriving anywhere for anything to settle in comfortably enough.
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Post by kassonica »

I have a feeling that carbon maybe over.

And Motu may of been waiting for this keynote.
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Post by Frodo »

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Post by Frodo »

kassonica wrote:I have a feeling that carbon maybe over.

And Motu may of been waiting for this keynote.
You could be right, kass.

It just occurred to me that the death of Carbon may not mean the death of PPC support where PPC's would be quite capable of running Cocoa.

Hmm-- the plot THICKENS!! :shock:
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Post by kassonica »

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Post by Frodo »

[quote="kassonica"][/quote]

And kassonica gets the award for the most concise post in the history of Unicornation!! :lol:
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Post by bOing »

Bill OC wrote:As one who worked in book and software publishing for much of my life, I still cannot fathom a company that announces a product for the first quarter, and then says absolutely nothing into June.

To quote the robot in Lost in Space: "It does not compute."
Actually, when you see the size of their manuals you have to wonder whether they're not just in the publishing business, throwing in the software as a freebee. :)
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