dudes... i got it! i effin' got it!

[FM]

Originally posted by kwiz:
Splinter:

I upgraded my studio early last year and started using the Rosetta 800/96 out to a 2408mk3 via the light pipe into a Tascam DM-24 mixer, which are all clocked to a Big Ben.
This impoved my sound dramaticly!!! I put an analog card in my DM-24 in order to hear D/A conversion from the Rosetta and love what I hear back. I recently treated myself to a Benchmark DAC-1 from Sweetwater (because of their return policy just in case I didn't hear a difference) and my studio went up another notch!!! All that said, analog summing does make a difference. Mixes that I've done on my DA-88's going through an old Tascam M3500 seem to have a certain desirable quality to them. I've heard some people call it "glue", maybe it's just analog distortion which some call "warmth". Whatever it is, it's what most of us want to hear.
I seem to have captured that sound by strapping an Avalon 747 to my stereo bus with about a 2/1 ratio with a medium attack that barley gets the gain reduction light to blink. I then go into the hardware version of the Waves L2 for some light limiting/maximizing, out to the original version of the Tony Larkin C1 compressor/pre with no compression engaged. I just want to pass the stereo signal through more tubes. I then send that signal into a Masterlink via the analog ins. That chain seems to get me that "glue/warmth" that I desire. Some here wouldn't advise this because of the Masterlinks so-so converters, but it works for me. This thread made me add the C1 to the final stage. (THANKS FM) I'll probably try re-arranging the chain by putting the C1 before the L2, allowing me to clock the L2 to the Big Ben, and digitally go to the Masterlink bypassing the Alesis A/D conversion.
Who knows?
The latest project that I'm mixing is suppose to be Mastered by
Emily Lazar. I'm curious to hear what she thinks about the mixes.

mmmmm... emily lazar... mmmmm... talented, beautiful, loves music, beautiful, great at what she does, beautiful, very knowledgeable, did i mention she's beautiful?
alright, i'm STFU now. (shutting the f_ck up).
but seriously, folks... kwiz, that's a mighty nice setup you got yourself over there dude.
i currently clock off of my rosetta AD and i've been wondering if a dedicated clock (big ben) would make a difference, a sales guy from sweetwater told me that i should put my money in other things, that from the rosetta is enough to clock from. what do you think?
dude, i totally dig your signal flow, nice.

cheers!

FM

FM contains aspartame.

[Timeline]

You might hang a week. I'm getting my hands of the UA 2192 clock and AD-DA this week. I'm told the clock is every bit as tight as Big-Ben and you get amazing converters. The buzz is absolutely outstanding on every board you look.

I'll report in ASAP and will test will include a vintage ELAM251 w/LA2A compressor to a HD192.

[FM]

Originally posted by Timeline:
You might hang a week. I'm getting my hands of the UA 2192 clock and AD-DA this week. I'm told the clock is every bit as tight as Big-Ben and you get amazing converters. The buzz is absolutely outstanding on every board you look.

I'll report in ASAP and will test will include a vintage ELAM251 w/LA2A compressor to a HD192.

nice!
dude, this is The Year Of The Summing.
i have my eyes on a couple of different things, it's all about making my budget work.
please do post back here.

peace!

FM

FM only listens to two kinds of music; country and western.

<small>[ January 03, 2005, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: FM ]</small>

[subspace]

Hey, I haven't posted here since 2001, but at that time we were comparing mixing in the DAW to mixing on a console (summing box wasn't a product category at the time.) I had switched to mixing in the DAW one year earlier and was trying to decide if I should spring for a new computer/ software/ control surface or go a different direction. After comparing a couple mixes done inside the DAW to ones done on a console, I decided a more powerful DAW wasn't going to improve the sound of my end product. I upgraded to an older console instead, and am still using the now ancient DAW rig as a multi-track editor/ automation/ plug-in processor.
I usually assign every track it's own D/A channel, then run the console's stereo mix into an A/D that feeds two aux tracks. On one of the auxes, I use 2-bus comp/ limit plugs while dithering the output to a CD burner. The other aux is unprocessed and feeds a pair of tracks on a stand-alone HDR.
One recent project involved a series of intermittant mixing dates where the client wanted to stay inside the DAW so he could move back and forth between different mixes quicker (thereby delaying having to make any decisions longer...) We were jumping from one song to another, which weren't quite perfect yet to his ears, when he asked for some more bottom on the snare. My dinosaur DAW was creaking already so I just set-up a post-fader unity send to another D/A channel to create an analog snare mult, then EQ'd that. He asked what I had done and after I showed him, he wanted to try it on a bunch of different tracks. So much for hopping mix to mix, but on the other hand, he finally had a mix he liked.
After this, I set-up a few more mixes where every track was assigned to a stereo master D/A, while send 1 of every track was a post-fader unity send feeding it's own D/A channel. I rough-in the mix using the DAW faders feeding the stereo output, then start adding hardware EQs and outboard to the mult'd send and blending that in with the console's fader to taste. It's an interesting blend of the two working methods, half analog summed and half-digital. I find that if you use a premium D/A for the DAW's stereo mix output, you can use a broad range of D/As for the mult'd signals without destroying the clarity, rather you're just blending in an additional color. One premium stereo D/A like a DAC-1 or mini-DAC works nicely along-side MOTU built-in D/As etc., so long as they're aligned properly.

More internet flotsam

[kwiz]

Originally posted by FM:
[/qb]

mmmmm... emily lazar... mmmmm... talented, beautiful, loves music, beautiful, great at what she does, beautiful, very knowledgeable, did i mention she's beautiful?
alright, i'm STFU now. (shutting the f_ck up).
but seriously, folks... kwiz, that's a mighty nice setup you got yourself over there dude.
i currently clock off of my rosetta AD and i've been wondering if a dedicated clock (big ben) would make a difference, a sales guy from sweetwater told me that i should put my money in other things, that from the rosetta is enough to clock from. what do you think?
dude, i totally dig your signal flow, nice.

cheers!

FM

FM contains aspartame.[/QB][/QUOTE]

Hahahaha.......I haven't met her yet, but based on a picture that I saw of her she's pretty dammm fine.

[mchimes]

I checked out that UA box . . . that seems to be the way to go (as far as getting a good 2-track "lens"). If the clock is anywhere near as stable as a dedicated clock (and it seems to be based on their design philosophy), then that would hold everything together nicely . . . with an excellent A/D/A with a Class A analog path. I think that box goes for $2300 street . . . the Big ben is like $1400 I think and the Aardsync is around the same.

I think I remember the UA having has 4 word clock outs too. Slave the so-so MOTU convertors to it and you have the best of both worlds.

Timeline . . . can't wait to hear your opinion.

Now time to sell some guitars.

Mike

[soulful strut]

Originally posted by Splinter:

For me, the next step is good conversion. I'd like a Mytek Stereo96, but it is only AES outs and I have no way of getting it into my 2408, so I'm thinking about the Rosetta 200. AD and DAs with a Big Ben Clock, sure would notch up my system, but dang Apogee stuff is expensive for what you get. Many think Apogee is more about hype and less about quality. I don't know. Any opinions there?

Yes, some definite opinions. I have a Mytek Stereo96 and it will work for you in two terrific ways: First of all you do have a way to get it into the 2408 via s/pdif, so you can enjoy great A/D conversion, a marked improvement over the MOTU (which is actually not too bad, IMO, if you're not stacking a lot of analog tracks). And here's the other neat thing, you can use it as your clock! It's a very low jitter (10ps) clock generator; just select s/pdif as the clock source in the FW driver and you're good to go!

If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.

[Circuitt]

I think this is why a lot of people "re-sample" things with a sampler

[pcm]

Originally posted by mchimes:
I'm assuming you guys have checked out Lynn Fuston's Summing CD where he sets analog summing against alot of the most popular DAWs. Alot of the posts there are from very experienced folks who BLINDLY listened and rated many platforms . . . the resluts may surprise you. Many DAWs could hang w/ analog mixes.

http://www.3daudioinc.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=19

I havent heard this collection, but I have his Mic CD and know he does impeccably detailed work.

Mike

[pcm]

Originally posted by mchimes:
I'm assuming you guys have checked out Lynn Fuston's Summing CD where he sets analog summing against alot of the most popular DAWs. Alot of the posts there are from very experienced folks who BLINDLY listened and rated many platforms . . . the resluts may surprise you. Many DAWs could hang w/ analog mixes.

http://www.3daudioinc.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=19

I havent heard this collection, but I have his Mic CD and know he does impeccably detailed work.

Mike

I do have this, and I have taken the test. Before any of you start spending any money, you might want to get this CD and listen to the tests yourself. It will blow your mind, and help you to realize that you need to stop believing all the party lines and start using your own ears.

The CD has 30 or so mixes, all of the same song, all summed on different systems. Some are DAWs, some are digital boards, some are analog consoles, like SSL, Neve, Trident 80 series, etc. Pretty much any system you can mention is there. After the CDs were sent out, a discussion group was set up, and everybody "voted" for their favorites. Nobody knew which was which, of course.

I loaded all the mixes into DP, and used to solo buttons to quickly switch around. They did indeed sound different. I'm not going to give it away (PLEASE do not email me about that!), but all I can tell you is to not go spending any money until you get a copy of this and do you own listening. Once you do that, you can make up your own tests, and double check for yourself.

I was wondering when someone was going to bring this up!

[FM]

wow.
this thread came back to life...

well, i do have to say that since i started mixing OTB i am having much better results with my sound.
i'm using an API 8200A line mixer as my summing device.
one of the first things i did when i started mixing OTB was to take an existing song and put it thru my line mixer, i did not notice any improvement at all, matter of fact it sounded terrible.
so here's what i did, i stripped the song of ALL it's plugs, set everything at unity and begun to mix and pan using the 8200A from scratch.
then things REALLY changed.
so, these days, i incorporate the line mixer as much as possible, the downside of that is that it's A LOT more work. i have to do a lot of subgrouping and a lot of the time after i have recorded a subgroup there is always that one instrument that could just be a little bit louder or viceversa, that means that if i want to adjust it i have to re-record that particular subgroup.
yeah... major PITA.

is it worth it?
for me, at least, it is.
one of the things i have noticed as well is that i use almost no plugs at all which i like a lot.

OTB is not for everybody to be sure, but it works for me.

peace!

FM

FM can, in case of emergency, be used as a flotation device.

[Keith Henry]

99% of the time, I'm just using the box simply as my multitrack record/playback. But, this depends on the project. If it's a small project or video, I might stay in the box. But, if I'm working on multitrack projects, having external analog eq's & comps like focusrite, manley, summit, etc.... inside the box doesn't compare. Plus, I don't have to worry about CPU overload and latency compensation.

Cheers