"Logic Update" or "Good Example for MOTU"

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bradycline
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"Logic Update" or "Good Example for MOTU"

Post by bradycline »

I know that this is not a new request around here, but Logic's 8.02 update readme reminds me of how frustrating Motu's vagueness on updates can be. Keep in mind that this logic update is a very "minor" update. If we could get half this much info on a paid-for DP upgrade, we would feel like Christmas had come early. I don't want to dwell on past shortcomings though, so maybe, instead of a rant, this can be considered a friendly example to MOTU of what the change-log could look like when we get to DP6.02.

(I also am impressed with the number of bug fixes rather than trying to add new features.)

Products Affected
Logic Pro 8
Arrange window

Copy and paste operations on audio regions create independent regions instead of clones.
Channel strips of frozen tracks can now be copied.
The Select All Following command no longer selects regions on protected tracks.
You are no longer asked to unfreeze the selected track when performing tasks that do not require an unfrozen track (such as muting tracks).
When deleting a track with Auto Zoom enabled, the next selected track is now automatically zoomed.
If the track header is configured to display two track names and you have chosen “Auto name” for the right-hand column, double-clicking the right-hand column now activates the text input field for naming.
Cutting looped regions with the Marquee tool now behaves as expected.
Using the Marquee tool to perform region copy and paste operations now behaves as expected.
In projects that don’t start on a whole bar position, the Marquee tool now works as expected when the Snap menu is set to Bar.
The Tab key now steps correctly through tracks when renaming tracks in the track header.
Arbitrary crossfades no longer occur when you choose an X-Fade setting in the Drag menu.
Deleting unused tracks (Track > Delete Unused) from the Arrange area now works as expected.
The Delay parameter now works on folders that contain audio regions.
The content overview (MIDI data events) of MIDI regions now updates while time stretching.
The Unpack Folder (Use Existing Tracks) command now works as expected.
The zoom out range is optimized.
The MIDI Recording project setting “Create tracks in cycle record” now works as expected.
Differing region parameter values across a multiple-region selection are now correctly indicated by an asterisk (*).
Region aliases are now converted to real copies when cut.
Cutting looped MIDI regions now works as expected.
Cutting looped regions at certain tempos now works as expected.
It is now possible to import DNA groove templates without issue.
Audio Miscellaneous

Synchronization between Ultrabeat and Logic is improved.
When working with a combination of Apple Loops, REX2 files, and folders, Apple Loops now adapt correctly to the project key.
Time stretching audio regions in the Arrange area now works as expected.
Bouncing a project that contains regions that follow the project tempo (Follow Tempo function) now also works in projects with tempo changes.
With UTM off, changing a mono bus-fed aux channel strip to a mono bus channel strip no longer breaks the routing.
There is no longer an issue of some projects not playing the first note.
You can now add all WAV (.wav) files to the Arrange area via drag and drop.
Entering a value outside of the range in the Apogee Ensemble and Duet control panels no longer produces a recurrent error message.

Audio Units

When you move plug-in windows that are larger than the screen, the plug-in header no longer disappears.
When you open projects containing Audio Unit plug-ins that are available as both an effect and instrument, the correct plug-in version is loaded.
Automation

In Touch automation mode with Ramp Time set to 0 milliseconds, the parameter now returns to its previously recorded setting immediately after releasing the automation controller.
When you edit region positions in the Event List, any automation will also follow the change of position.
Shift-Option-Control-dragging over a grouped track now works as expected, creating four nodes on all tracks of that group.
Multi output instrument automation is now recorded on the selected track.

Bouncing and Burning

Bouncing 5.1 projects as split stereo files now works as expected.
Editors

Changing the left corner of an event in the Piano Roll Editor no longer results in an arbitrary change of the region's start position.
The Auto Define feature in Hyper Editor now works as expected.
Double-clicking an event in the Piano Roll Editor now opens the Event List and scrolls to the selected event.
You can now edit a selection of events from different regions in the Piano Roll Editor.
Selecting a region no longer changes the Piano Roll Editor view to the region start position.
When changing the project tempo, the Hyper Draw display in the Piano Roll Editor now updates correctly for SMPTE-locked regions.
When resizing a region, the region length no longer resets when the right border crosses the left border.
Changing the ticks of an event length in the Event List now works as expected.
The Event List now shows the correct selection after copying regions.
Using the plus sign (+) and minus sign (–) keys in the Event List now behaves as expected.
General

You can now change the Cycle Pre-Processing preference even if no project is open.
When reopening projects, the Transform window status is now recalled correctly in screensets.
Changing the SMPTE Position value in the Transport bar now works as expected.
The Templates dialog now recalls the last chosen template collection.
Opening Logic under Mac OS X v10.5 Leopard is now much faster.
For improved reliability, the Undo History is now limited to 200 steps.
You can no longer move Events inside a SMPTE-locked region.
Global Tracks

In projects with time signature changes, the Repeat Regions/Events command now takes the current signature value into account.
Under Mac OS X v10.5, the last transposition event is now displayed correctly.
You can now move Markers while Logic is playing.
The Beats from Region function now is optimized for audio regions.
Beat mapping now works with audio files that originate from CDs.
You can now Shift-Control-double-click a marker in the Marker track to rename that marker as expected.
Instruments

Ultrabeat loads the correct samples with the project.
Importing Ultrabeat sounds works as expected.
The first and second notes of the ES1 now play as expected when the Analog value is greater than 0%.
Ultrabeat now triggers the correct pattern.
Xfeed modes in Sculpture work as expected.
Media Area

You can now resize the Loop Browser window (from the lower right edge) without unexpected issues.
Renaming an audio file group in the Audio Bin now works as expected.
Creating audio file groups in the Audio Bin can now be undone.
Deleting files and regions from the Audio Bin can now be undone.
The level of the Prelisten Volume slider now remains consistent across the relevant Media area tabs.
You can now stop previewing audio files in the Add Audio File dialog after adding the audio file.
Dragging a file onto the File Browser switches the Browser to the file's parent directory.
MIDI

Selecting an external MIDI track no longer sends its settings.
The All Notes Off command now applies to software instruments.
Mixer

Hidden Arrange area tracks are now also hidden in the Mixer.
Clicking a channel strip’s Level fader no longer selects the channel strip.
Redraw for the Mixer is optimized when stepping through Arrange area tracks.
The Create/Select Arrange Track shortcut menu command now works correctly when multiple channel strips are selected.
Input slot naming for aux channel strips (multiple outputs) is improved.
Using numerical input to edit the Pan value of a MIDI track now works the same way as for audio tracks; a value of 0 corresponds to the center position.
The Scroll To function in the Mixer View menu now works as expected.
When you drag a plug-in beyond the border of the Mixer area, the Mixer area now scrolls with the mouse pointer.
Changing the automation mode of the master channel strip no longer alters the automation mode of MIDI channel strips.
Changing the Group setting when multiple channel strips are selected now works as expected.
Sample Editor

Normalization now executes correctly after adjusting any settings.
Selecting part of an audio region and changing the color no longer selects the entire region.
Score

You can change user rests to channel 1.
You can now use the “Underlined” style in the Font window.
You can export some objects (such as the 8va symbol) using the Camera tool.
Redraw for lyric input is optimized.
The “Select All Following of Same Pitch” command now works as expected.
Dividing brackets and bar lines beyond 25 staffs in instrument sets is improved.
Sync

The start position of a movie is now determined by the first tempo event, with any changes to the tempo event also changing the movie start position.
Logic now sends 29.97 drop fps as expected.

Key Commands

The “Split Regions/Events by Playhead Position” and “Split Regions/Events by rounded Playhead Position” key commands are now as follows:
If used when Logic is stopped, a dialog asks if you want to keep, shorten, or split overlapping notes.
If used when Logic is playing, overlapping notes are automatically split.
The key command "Set ... Tool" (for example Set Pointer Tool) no longer switches between that tool and the previously set tool.
To address an overlap with some Mac OS X v10.5 keyboard shortcuts, the default zoom key commands (such as Zoom Horizontal Out) are now Command-Arrow instead of Control-Arrow.
The Cycle Through Windows command now works for plug-in windows.

Interface

Plug-in window size changes are now saved with screensets.
There is no longer an issue with the display when using Pro Tools 7.4 Digidesign TDM plug-ins.
You can now set the background color in the Marker Text area/window.
Switching screensets is much faster.
Markers in the Marker List and Marker Text window are no longer automatically selected during playback.
Screensets are now optimized in the event that the screen resolution or menu bar position have been changed.
Projects

There is improved stability when opening large projects.
The “Project Clean up” command no longer suggests to delete all Ultrabeat samples in the project folder.
Video

When you open a movie, the Video track now displays automatically.
When extracting audio from a movie, the extracted audio now consistently matches the sample rate of the project.
The status of the Movie window (whether open or closed) now saves with screensets.
Control Surfaces

The controller assignment for the master channel strip now works as expected.
The display of assignment parameters in the Controller Assignments window is improved.
The support for various control surfaces is optimized, in particular for the Roland SI-24 and the Euphonix devices.
Miscellaneous

After loading a project, Delay Designer's feedback tap now loads correctly.
You can now enter note events in the Transformer window via the keyboard without unexpected issues.
You can now preview REX2 and MP3 files in the Audio Bin file selector box while Logic is playing.
There are various take management and workflow improvements.
You can now undo various Mixer and channel strip tasks such as loading next/previous channel strip, inserting and removing plug-ins.
Thanks,
Brady
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Post by dmacintyre »

Yes, I thought about posting about this on here. Looks like I will be going back to Logic for the time being given that they have fixed the things that were causing me problems. I'm starting to get tired of waiting for 6.....

D.
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bradycline
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Post by bradycline »

In a way I'm halfway happy to see that this got moved to the theoretical discussions board. If OT stuff gets moved here often it makes getting to specific DP help a lot easier for everyone. On the other hand, I'm not sure what the criteria is. There are currently several active topics on the DP board that are of interest to DAW users, but can't in any way be thought of as DP specific (e.g. New AU plugin release, Altiverb phoning home, Orchestration courses, etc.) My post was at least related to a concern about how MOTU handles DP updates. This is something germane to many DP users.

Respect and lots of thanks to James for his tireless work and all those in the community much more active than I am that make this a great place, (regardless of sub-forum).

(*One thing for sure is that this particular post of mine does belong in the OT forum.)

Thanks.
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Matcher
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Post by Matcher »

I posted about this update too, here in OT forum just a second ago, but deleted my post now.

But yes, this looks like a really nice update, with lots of fixes and new goodies, and a list of them all! 8)
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Post by James Steele »

I am just a LITTLE busy with other pursuits as you acknowledge. Honestly, ONE OF THESE DAYS... when I have nothing better to do... I can try to post an exhaustive explanation of the criteria I use to categorize posts. Of course, I'll have to redesign the web site in such a way as to put this in a place where most people will ACTUALLY SEE IT. Otherwise, I will explain myself time and time again.

The way I determine if it goes here is if it is not really discussing the USE of DP or a plug that you use with a DP, or is some other practical, nuts-and-bolts DP-related post, but rather something discussion MOTU, or how we would like to see them do business, or a comparative with another program. Then it's more a discussion of the theoretical or other matters that are not directly about USING DIGITAL PERFORMER.

Hope that makes some sense. I'll perhaps cut and paste this to a text file so I can re-use this bit of copy every time it comes up. Thanks. :D
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Post by kassonica »

James Steele wrote:
Hope that makes some sense. I'll perhaps cut and paste this to a text file so I can re-use this bit of copy every time it comes up. Thanks
Sounds like a good plan :D
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MIDI Life Crisis
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Re: "Logic Update" or "Good Example for MOTU&

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

bradycline wrote:I know that this is not a new request around here, but Logic's 8.02 update readme reminds me of how frustrating Motu's vagueness on updates can be. ...
Products Affected
Logic Pro 8 ...
Audio Miscellaneous
Thanks,
Brady
Nothing vague about that.


:roll:
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Re: "Logic Update" or "Good Example for MOTU&

Post by Matcher »

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:
bradycline wrote:I know that this is not a new request around here, but Logic's 8.02 update readme reminds me of how frustrating Motu's vagueness on updates can be. ...
Products Affected
Logic Pro 8 ...
Audio Miscellaneous
Thanks,
Brady
Nothing vague about that.


:roll:
The whole paragaph is:

Audio Miscellaneous

Synchronization between Ultrabeat and Logic is improved.
When working with a combination of Apple Loops, REX2 files, and folders, Apple Loops now adapt correctly to the project key.
Time stretching audio regions in the Arrange area now works as expected.
Bouncing a project that contains regions that follow the project tempo (Follow Tempo function) now also works in projects with tempo changes.
With UTM off, changing a mono bus-fed aux channel strip to a mono bus channel strip no longer breaks the routing.
There is no longer an issue of some projects not playing the first note.
You can now add all WAV (.wav) files to the Arrange area via drag and drop.
Entering a value outside of the range in the Apogee Ensemble and Duet control panels no longer produces a recurrent error message.

Apple knows how to do things right pretty much, and in some things MOTU could learn a lot from them. Nothing wrong with giving credit for a company that does an update like this. Like it should be done.
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Matcher
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Post by Matcher »

Just to give everyone a proper picture of the update article, here's a direct link, which is a lot clearer than the list above:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1086
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Post by philbrown »

I predict MOTU will never change in this regard. I don't know why they are the way they are, but they've had plenty of years to change and plenty of suggestions of such (I would guess) and they haven't budged a bit on this. My guess is their theory is "If we never admit to bugs, even after the fact, it's like there aren't any." "If we hide the whiskey then dad's not really an alkie." Ok that was a really bad metaphor :roll: Best I could do at 7 AM :D

Cheers
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Post by Matcher »

Yeah, and on top of it all, to this day there's been no announcement in MOTU's site of 5.13 upgrade. I don't know if I should laugh or cry. The key here would be to evolve..we all know what the option is.
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Post by kassonica »

Oh well great logic update shame about the program :twisted:

How can anyone compare Apple Inc to Motu? One is a multinational company with thousands of staff (some the best money can buy) to Motu which is a much much smaller company.

Down in Australia it's part of our culture to always support the underdog that tries and Motu is a trier taking on some very big fish, apple, pro fools etc and have beaten them more times than I have minutes to remember with innovative products and idea's.

I say it's a small price to pay to have REAL competition other wise all that will be left is 'tools or logic and then I will really go buy a one inch 8 track.

GO motu
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Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

kassonica wrote: How can anyone compare Apple Inc to Motu? One is a multinational company with thousands of staff (some the best money can buy)...
.. and the other just makes great software :)
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Post by kassonica »

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:
kassonica wrote: How can anyone compare Apple Inc to Motu? One is a multinational company with thousands of staff (some the best money can buy)...
.. and the other just makes great software :)
Ditto :) :D :lol:
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Post by blue »

kassonica wrote:How can anyone compare Apple Inc to Motu? One is a multinational company with thousands of staff (some the best money can buy) to Motu which is a much much smaller company.
The relative size of MOTU is no excuse for poor customer relations. In fact, I would say the size disadvantage makes better relationship practices that much more imperative. There are smaller software companies out there who do go through the trouble of informing their users what has been fixed and what needs fixing. Little things like that go a long way toward building and keeping a base IMO, and doesn't seem to cost much more than a little time.

Seems to me MOTU is behind the times on how best to communicate with their customers. Transparency is more the norm now.
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