Overhead mic placement....

Phil O · Post by **Phil O** » Tue May 20, 2008 1:16 pm

BradLyons wrote:HEY I'M A WINDOWS USER, SO I'M DUMB!

OH, MAN!!! We gotta have this framed!

Phil

oldguitars · Post by **oldguitars** » Tue May 20, 2008 2:53 pm

BradLyons wrote:
mattfort wrote:.... By the way, notice the crahses "suspended". I get odd comments about "the look", but they sound better that way as opposed to sitting on a stand.

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You are kidding, right?

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Tue May 20, 2008 2:55 pm

Nope, they really do in lower frequencies---resonance issues.

Phil O · Post by **Phil O** » Tue May 20, 2008 3:02 pm

Yeah, I think it was Steve Gadd (I could be mistaken) who said he removes the top felts for the same reason.

Phil

oldguitars · Post by **oldguitars** » Tue May 20, 2008 5:57 pm

drummer for 20 years, never had an issue with lack of "low end" or resonance in my cymbals. Then again, i like big old, thin cymbals ala Ringo, Brian Blade, etc.

I also use rivets when ever i can!

That being said, i do hate it when felts are tight (even on HH). THAT sucks the life out of a cymbal....

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Tue May 20, 2008 6:42 pm

OldGuitars,

My logic isn't logical to everyone else as I'm one of those that will find faults that others may not hear, I am INCREDIBLY CRITICAL and have excessively high standards. When a cymbal is sitting on th stand, it's weight is depressed against the stand pushing on it even though there is a spacer and the felt. BUT when it's suspended, it is just that....suspended. It's hanging from above, not pushing below. The end result is an even balance of sustain across all frequencies. When cymbals resonate, the cymbal transmits sound through vibration and anything that touches it absorbs the energy whether it is even or not. So while it looks "1980-ish", it really does sound better

NOW with that said, HEAVY duty stands make the difference as well---but I don't have the space for that.

oldguitars · Post by **oldguitars** » Tue May 20, 2008 7:27 pm

Yet, you have them mounted on a rack that not only transmits some of the cymbals energy to the toms, but sympathetic vibrations run rampant from the toms to the cymbals, even with RIMS.

I am sorry to go on a rant, but i HATE when engineers tell drummers what is "better".

and if an engineer told me what cymbal stands to use... don't get me started!

i doubt that ringo, bonham, gadd, elvin jones, philly joe, Levon helm, matt chamberlin etc, would sound better having hung their cymbals....

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:22 am

Nope, not at all...the rack I have this on is a SOLID stand. I've done A/B listening, and I notice the difference. I've had other drummers come in and listen and they couldn't tell the difference. Maybe that's the difference....engineers have good ears, drummers just hit things

bolla · Post by **bolla** » Wed May 21, 2008 5:36 am

I'm trying to understand the suspended or otherwise cymbal theory.
And trying to suspend my belief or disbelief.

A cymbal that is resting on a felt - that is resting on a stand is surely the same whether the stand itself is above or below the cymbal?
If not.........
The only minor difference would be that the stand being below does not have any flexion whereas the stand above does?

This is really important. I can't sleep. I need to though. I'm about to crash.
Cheers, Bolla.

Phil O · Post by **Phil O** » Wed May 21, 2008 6:54 am

bolla wrote:I'm about to crash.
Cheers, Bolla.

Cymbals. Crash. I get it.

Phil

Phil O · Post by **Phil O** » Wed May 21, 2008 7:04 am

But seriously, how a cymbal is suspended does indeed change its sound. I think that some of a cymbal's sound is transmitted to the stand and some of the stand's sound (picked up from toms, etc.) is transmitted to the cymbal. Also, the felts (and what the felts are connected to) do, to a certain degree, dampen the cymbal's vibration. And, how a cymbal responds to a strike (i.e., how it moves and pivots when first struck) has an effect. Felt pressure on the top HH is the most obvious example. The differences are subtle for sure, but there ARE differences.

Phil

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Wed May 21, 2008 8:16 am

Phil answered it best. Thanks, Phil! You see, your life does have meaning after-all!

just kidding, of course

monkey man · Post by **monkey man** » Wed May 21, 2008 9:49 am

My sanity is temporarily suspended.
Somebody please strike me.

Makes sense, Brad and Phil.
I wonder what would happen if you could somehow suspend a cymbal on a wire (nylon, perhaps?) that was tightly fastened to the ceiling and the ground.
It'd effectively be floating in air, with little chance of feedback-cancellation.

A new MonkeyLabs™ invention, perhaps?

Phil O · Post by **Phil O** » Wed May 21, 2008 10:04 am

Yeah, MM, but the bottom line is, the player probably has a much bigger impact on the sound of any particular cymbal than does any suspension style. So although I agree that it makes a difference, I usually don't sweat much over it.

Phil

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Wed May 21, 2008 1:22 pm

Yeah---I have a great drum kit, but I SUCK playing them. I have the kit so I can bring real drummers in and let me focus on the recording process. It works well that way