Overhead mic placement....

mattfort · Post by **mattfort** » Fri May 09, 2008 8:33 am

I've been reading a lot about making the OH mics equal distance from the snare. How do you guys do this? Do you pull the right mic (drummer perspective) in, or push the left mic away from the snare?

bolla · Post by **bolla** » Fri May 09, 2008 11:19 pm

This is all from a right handed drummers perspective not the audience. No jokes please

Try moving the right OH mic down and towards the floor tom.
The left is usually somewhere between the left crash and HH. This works well on lots of meatcleaver sn style tracks. You can also try a MS pair slightly to the right of the snare (say 30 degrees off) with the cardiod pointing directly at the sn.

Cheers, Bolla

sdemott · Post by **sdemott** » Sun May 11, 2008 5:22 am

Another approach is to pull the OHs off the kit to the sides, equal distance from the snare both aiming at the snare and high (6 - 7 ft). Get a good overall balance from the OHs and add the spot mics for extra "oomph".

Of course, you can also use an ORTF or XY pair behind/above the drummer centered on the snare. In a good sounding room a Blumlein pair is really nice too.

It all depends on the sound you want and what you're getting from the drummer/kit/room to begin with.

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Wed May 14, 2008 3:04 pm

What mics are you using on the drums and overheads?

Brian Middleton · Post by **Brian Middleton** » Thu May 15, 2008 8:52 am

I've been using the Recorderman Method lately and liking the results. It looks a bit odd, but it works very nicely. A YouTube video is worth a thousand words:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiFOD1EeKhQ

What this method does is ensure that kick and snare are always dead center. It results in punchy but natural-sounding OH tracks with a well-defined stereo image and great mono compatibility. It's also a useful technique in less than ideal rooms, especially rooms with low ceilings.

HCMarkus · Post by **HCMarkus** » Fri May 16, 2008 4:56 pm

I like to put overheads near the drummer's head, so they capture the kit the way the performer hears it as he plays.

mattfort · Post by **mattfort** » Sun May 18, 2008 9:20 am

I'm using a pair of 121's OR Rode Classics OR TLM 103's...

I guess my specific question is how do you "make" the equilateral triangle? Do you lower the right side, or move it in or move the left side out? (Right handed drummer perspective)

Brian Middleton · Post by **Brian Middleton** » Sun May 18, 2008 9:35 am

mattfort wrote:I'm using a pair of 121's OR Rode Classics OR TLM 103's...

I guess my specific question is how do you "make" the equilateral triangle? Do you lower the right side, or move it in or move the left side out? (Right handed drummer perspective)

The method I linked to accomplishes this by making the "left" mic directly above the snare, but relatively high, and the right mic lower, but further laterally from the snare (usually just behind and beside the drummer's right shoulder). So the equilateral triangle is kind of tilted down and to the right; the side connecting the two mics to each other is not parallel to the floor, if that makes any sense.

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Sun May 18, 2008 12:08 pm

mattfort wrote:I'm using a pair of 121's OR Rode Classics OR TLM 103's...

I guess my specific question is how do you "make" the equilateral triangle? Do you lower the right side, or move it in or move the left side out? (Right handed drummer perspective)

If you're using Royer R121's, may I make a suggestion to consider? The Royer ribbons sound great as overheads, but if you have to space to do this....if you can put these mics out in-front of the kit say about 6ft or so, put them above well above the kit and aim down at a 45-degree angle, the result is incredible. Now, I don't recommend to do this if that is the only overheads you have because the sound is different. What this gives you is more of the "meet" of the toms and snare and the warmth of the cymbals as opposed to attack of toms and snare and the clarity of the cymbals. When mixed in with your overheads in a good room----wow!! Another option as an A/B spaced pair is to place behind the kit, angled down towards the toms and cymbals as opposed to directly above. YOU MUST LISTEN TO THE PLACEMENT, so it's best to get the drummer to just play while you go back and forth between your control room and monitors (or headphones if you have to) and just move the mics a few inches at a time, just listen. There is so much that can be accomplished a few inches at a time.

Personally, I use Earthworks TC30's miked pretty close to the kit. This is a picture from when I was just using my upstairs bedroom to record in---I don;'t have my current pictures up yet. But here you'll see the TC30's above the crashes about 12" They are not directly above, but somewhat in-front so there is also coverage of the ride and hi hat. While you might think the snare is prominent in the left channel, when I mix in the snare direct-miked you don't notice it. THE KEY IS WATCH YOUR GAINS! Many record drums FAR TOO HOT. Just barely turn up the signal, let the drums do the work. Record the drums, not the room. If you want to record the room, then use ambient mics. This picture also has a pair of Earthworks QTC40's in X/Y to capture what I was referring to above with the Royer's....the "ummph". By the way, notice the crahses "suspended". I get odd comments about "the look", but they sound better that way as opposed to sitting on a stand.

[/img]

Brian Middleton · Post by **Brian Middleton** » Sun May 18, 2008 12:27 pm

BradLyons wrote:This picture also has a pair of Earthworks QTC40's in X/Y

Why would you put omnis in X/Y??

mattfort · Post by **mattfort** » Sun May 18, 2008 12:29 pm

(sigh)

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Sun May 18, 2008 3:15 pm

Brian Middleton wrote:
BradLyons wrote:This picture also has a pair of Earthworks QTC40's in X/Y
Why would you put omnis in X/Y??

Because they sound absolutely AMAZING that way. Logic would tell you not to, but the application itself---when used and spaced properly (you must listen first) can really sound awesome. I actually use my TC30's in X/Y on acoustic guitar only 6" away---again, logic says no----application, wow.

Phil O · Post by **Phil O** » Mon May 19, 2008 5:58 am

I think what he's saying, Brad, is that if they're omnis, then it's technically not X/Y. It's simply a spaced pair. X/Y implies a directional component, requiring directional mics (usually coincident). Semantics for sure, but we're mostly anal engineers around here. (Is that redundant?)

But then again, maybe that's not what he's saying at all. I'll shut up now.

Phil

Brian Middleton · Post by **Brian Middleton** » Mon May 19, 2008 6:50 am

Right. Since capsules in X/Y are coincident (or as near to it as possible), it's useless without directional mics. Omnis in X/Y = mono.

Of course now that I look at Brad's pic more carefully, I realize that the QTC40's aren't in X/Y at all. They're spaced about like a Jecklin disc, except without the disc.

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Mon May 19, 2008 7:47 am

Yeah, what Brian said...my incorrect use of terms. HEY I'M A WINDOWS USER, SO I'M DUMB!