Turn An Acoustic Grand Piano into MIDI controller

Dwetmaster · Post by **Dwetmaster** » Tue May 13, 2008 9:16 pm

Hey Guys
My Church was offered an old Grand piano. I know it's a REALLY nice gift but the way we are set up, it's impractical to only have a mic'd piano.

So we are looking into a MIDI option. Have any of you ever had an acoustic piano converted to a MIDI controller by a tech?
(Sort of like a yamaha diskclavier)

Do you have suggestion, links or examples to get me started in my research.

Thanks guys.

cuttime · Post by **cuttime** » Tue May 13, 2008 10:59 pm

Ouch! I used to sell these things:

http://www.midi9.com/documents/ks1_owners_manual.pdf

Actually, they worked very well, but it was very difficult to find enough space under the keys to jam the controller strip.

Googling around, they appear not to be in production any more. Used? YMMV. Personally, if it was me, I'd buy some good piano mics and keep a tuner guy on retainer.

stephentayler · Post by **stephentayler** » Tue May 13, 2008 11:39 pm

The Moog Piano Bar is pretty good, although it seems to have dropped off the Moog website, maybe discontinued??

This tells you about it, but googling Moog Piano Bar will give you many hits.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--MOOPIANOBAR

It is easily fitted and not destructive to the piano as it just sits on the edge of the keys.

kind regards

Stephen

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Wed May 14, 2008 7:24 am

In my past life I was a tuner/technician and while I never had to install a MIDI "upgrade" I've seen a few and never really thought they were good for the piano.

The pianobar (Moog) looks best and short of a factory installed Diskclavier or Bosendorfer system, I'd go with that for a retro fit.

There is some serious work to install some of the "key affecting" devices, not the least of which is taking a router to the keybed.

WHAT!?

Not on my Yamaha grand you don't!

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Wed May 14, 2008 7:25 am

Yeah, the PianoBar works quite well....I highly recommend it.

Dwetmaster · Post by **Dwetmaster** » Wed May 14, 2008 8:46 am

I actually thought seriously about the Piano Bar but my only concern about is that you can't turn off the actual acoustic piano.

BTW guys keep in mind that the piano is NOT in Great Shape so we must have it fixed anyway. So I thought it wouldn't hurt mod it as well at the same time.

So there really isn't any good solution besides Moog?

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Wed May 14, 2008 9:38 am

Dwetmaster wrote:I actually thought seriously about the Piano Bar but my only concern about is that you can't turn off the actual acoustic piano.

BTW guys keep in mind that the piano is NOT in Great Shape so we must have it fixed anyway. So I thought it wouldn't hurt mod it as well at the same time.

So there really isn't any good solution besides Moog?

Well, if the piano is a mess and you are going to have it rebuilt (and dropping a couple of grand into the MIDI system isn't an issue) then by all means, throw in a MIDI player. The nice thing about [some of] the pianocorder type devices is that they actually playback on the acoustic instrument. The Moog version won't do that.

I'm sort of two minds here, however. If you're going to sink $2k+ into a MIDI upgrade and another (maybe $5k?) into a rebuild, you're into $7k or more for a piano that really isn't going to be worth much in the end and might not end up sounding or playing well.

At that point, you might be better off not investing anything in the piano (unless it is exceptional and restoration makes sense) and waiting out the market until you find a great deal on a quality grand. They are out there. Recently on Long Island, I saw a NEW Yamaha C7 for $10k. That's a $47k piano. The guy bought it 3 months earlier for his 6 year old who had a medical condition and would never be able to play it. I had to pass on it as I was leaving town the next day, but I see bargains (although not quite THAT good) all the time popping up.

While this seems like it's a little O/T, it really isn't. The piano bar is probably the fastest, least invasive way to get the instrument to be MIDIized, and it's fairly inexpensive by comparison to other options. But when you start talking about rebuilding an old instrument, you really need to be careful about that gift horse.

My advice is to get a technician/rebuilder in there and get some professional opinions and hard costs on these options. You might end up saving $$$ on a new Yamaha with an excellent player built-in or a fantastic grand.

Dwetmaster · Post by **Dwetmaster** » Wed May 14, 2008 9:59 am

Thanks MLC
I would not have the whole thing rebuilt but seriously tuned up. ( And I say tuned up, I'm NOT only about talking about pitch tuning.) I guess that for under 2000$ the PB is really the way to go. What about The Gabor system?
The only thing about the PB is I've heard that, depending on your piano keys, the PianoBar might not get the black keys properly?

Do you know anything about that?

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Wed May 14, 2008 10:11 am

Dwetmaster wrote:Thanks MLC
I would not have the whole thing rebuilt but seriously tuned up. ( And I say tuned up, I'm NOT only about talking about pitch tuning.) I guess that for under 2000$ the PB is really the way to go. What about The Gabor system?
The only thing about the PB is I've heard that, depending on your piano keys, the PianoBar might not get the black keys properly?

Do you know anything about that?

I don't, but there should be some sort of return policy if it doesn't work. Maybe Brad can tell us their policy in that case? Don't know the other systems well. I worked on the systems Marantz built about 15-20 years ago (no MIDI, just data tape; and cassette at that).