828 mk3 good stuff?

technobreath · Post by **technobreath** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:04 am

Hi.

I'm thinking of getting myself the mk3 828 since it seems to be exactly what I want. Many I/O and lightpipe + expansion possibilities. I understand that the mk3 is pretty new, so I wonder if any of u who have it can recommend it to me, or tell me to run away?

I'm looking for a multitrack recording solution for both live and studio - so is this the way to go? I can't really afford anything more expensive at this point either...

TB

PostPCMan · Post by **PostPCMan** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:22 pm

I'm pretty happy with mine. It sounds good, though I don't have world class mikes or "golden ears" to test with. Mine is working as advertised. The reverb is pretty good, the eq's are very good, and the compressors / limiters seem quite useful, though I haven't exercised them much yet. The digital mixer is pretty powerful, and the CueMix FX application that controls it is well laid out , though there are some limitations (see below). All in all, it's a lot of bang for the buck.

There has been a problem with the outputs being too hot, which you'll see referenced in a number of threads, but that is fixed with a new firmware release as of several days ago. No longer an issue.

There are two primary limitations that bug me personally, and there are threads about both of them. One is inflexible way in which the computer returns come back to the mixer, as described in http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27493. Depending on your use, this may be a non-issue, a minor annoyance, or a real problem. The workaround described in the thread, looping either the spdif or an adat back to itself, really works quite well if you don't need all 28 inputs, though it is a bit annoying to need it.

The other is that my AlphaTrack control surface doesn't work with CueMix, as discussed in http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27265. Other control surfaces supposedly do work, so this might not be a problem for you, but it's a drag for me.

If money were no object, I might think about the TC Electronic Studio Konnekt 48, but it's much more expensive. If you don't care about the reverbs / eq / dynamics there are a bunch of other units at a similar price. But the 828mk3 does a lot, does it pretty well, and hopefully the shortcomings will be corrected with updates later. So, I'd recommend it if the comibination of features is attractive to you.

technobreath · Post by **technobreath** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:40 am

thanks for the good answer.

I had a look at the thread about the routing inflexibility, and as far as I can see that is not a problem for me anyway... I am not actually planning to use it as a digital mixer in that way... more like an interface together with a digital mixer - more spesific yamaha 0V1 - with optical option.

So in my head I need as many inputs possible when producing music in the studio:

XLR inputs straight up with mics

instrument jacks with preamps and mics - if needed - if else, just connect instruments directly into it

And the optical inputs fed from the 01v mixers optical card. - reason to use the mixer is only to act as a multichannel preamp with mulitchannel optical IO. Anyone know of a cheaper way to use all the optical inputs with mics, you're very welcome to suggest...

This way to me it seems like I have the possibility to record a full band, with lots of mics - lots needed on the drums...

Live, I am right now using the 01v mixer - with 16 channels input. So one of the reasons I had to want the 828mk3 was to be able to take all 16 channels from the 01v back to the 828mk3 to be able to do a decent multitrack recording from the live sessions as well.

In the studio I do most of the synthesizers VSTi when producing music, so I really don't need a lot of inputs for a lot of synths - I just want the option to do two hardware synths together with a band too.

Let me also say - this thing is meant for project production, not pro audio studio with a control surface bigger than my king size bed. It's for me and my buddies to produce some CDs from time to time, and maybe others I know - but no professional stuff... If we wanted it that way we could always spend our money in studio sessions and not on the hardware. And now I'm used to tracking on my digidesign MBox with 2 inputs

, so I guess there will be a slight improvement no matter if the routing on 828mk3 works the way an expensive mixer does or not...

thanks for all advice you have...

ingebret

sustainiac · Post by **sustainiac** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:50 am

?Anyone know of a cheaper way to use all the optical inputs with mics, you're very welcome to suggest...

Use 2 ADA8000 8 ch preamps = sixteen additional live 24 bit audio channels for drum mics and cleaner than 01V (I have both)

With these, You could actually use both ADAT inputs on MK3. It Also gives you 16 additional Analog Line Outputs - usefull for killer monitor mixes, many other FX uses.

>Live, I am right now using the 01v mixer - with 16 channels input. So one of the reasons I had to want the 828mk3 was to be able to take all 16 channels from the 01v back to the 828mk3 to be able to do a decent multitrack recording from the live sessions as well.

01V has 20 bit converters is only a 6 bus mixer, and only supports 1 lightpipe interface. Only 8 channels via lightpipe and 4 20 bit analog via the OMNI Outs. Less dynamic range than ADA8000.

A/B testing - I prefer the sound and flexibility of 2 ADA8000's and MK3 - Using Macbook Pro, Reaper Audio
http://www.behringer.com/ada8000/

http://www.cockos.com/reaper/

http://www.sonicstate.com/digital/model ... =6&manid=2

billruys · Post by **billruys** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:42 pm

I was also just about to suggest the ADA8000. That little sucker punches well above its' weight. I have one plugged into my MOTU 2408 Mk3 and it's a nice easy way to add 8 preamps with a single cable.

I use it for drum mic'ing and it handles everything I throw at it. I want another one

DBCooper · Post by **DBCooper** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:58 am

For those with the 828mk3 already:

Can you change the order of the EQ and compression in the signal chain?

If you cannot, what order are they preset to?

Thanks

PostPCMan · Post by **PostPCMan** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:27 am

I don't know which order the effects are in, because the manual doesn't say. There's no flow diagram. And there's no way to change the order.

DBCooper · Post by **DBCooper** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:14 am

PostPCMan wrote:I don't know which order the effects are in, because the manual doesn't say. There's no flow diagram. And there's no way to change the order.

Thanks for your answer.

I really wish MOTU would publish their manuals for free like everyone else. Most of my questions could be answered by reading the manual.

Yogi1975 · Post by **Yogi1975** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:05 am

I believe the manuals DOES state a certain flow, although not in a fancy schmancy diagram, but just in text. It's easily overlooked.

PostPCMan · Post by **PostPCMan** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:31 am

Ooops. You're right. Right here on p. 80 it says that the flow is in the order that the tabs are show. First EQ, then dynamics, then reverb send & return.

Now, if the manual had been on-line, I (or dbcooper) could have done a search and found that the first time...

sustainiac · Post by **sustainiac** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:47 am

>Now, if the manual had been on-line

The path to take:

1) Ask MOTU for a German Language 828MK3 Manual in PDF form.

2) Copy text into bablefish to translate into English

3) Cut & Paste translated text and images from the German Manual to create your own English 828MK3 Manual

4) Don't buy any more MOTU gear until they change this lame policy.

DBCooper · Post by **DBCooper** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:06 pm

PostPCMan wrote:Ooops. You're right. Right here on p. 80 it says that the flow is in the order that the tabs are show. First EQ, then dynamics, then reverb send & return.

Now, if the manual had been on-line, I (or dbcooper) could have done a search and found that the first time...

Thanks for looking that up guys.

I am thinking about getting an 828mk3 for a live standalone mixer.
The effects make it an interesting choice.

Have you tried using the effects at 192k?

How much of a hit does the effects engine take at that resolution?

(The literature says it has enough horsepower for eq, compression, and reverb on each channel at 48k)

sustainiac · Post by **sustainiac** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:12 pm

>I am thinking about getting an 828mk3 for a live standalone mixer.

I wanted to do this too -
But Realize in a live standalone setting - (with no computer) the only 828MK3 controls you have are the ones on the 828 MK3 front panel - No external Fader boxes are compatible - and there is no 828 MIDI implementation or MCU or HUI control mode when used without a computer.

DBCooper · Post by **DBCooper** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:20 pm

sustainiac wrote:>I am thinking about getting an 828mk3 for a live standalone mixer.

I wanted to do this too -
But Realize in a live standalone setting - (with no computer) the only 828MK3 controls you have are the ones on the 828 MK3 front panel - No external Fader boxes are compatible - and there is no 828 MIDI implementation or MCU or HUI control mode.

Yeah, I understand that.

I don't need much control, its for a live guitar rig.

I have been told you can save 16 different mixer "snapshots" within the hardware.

I would set everything up at home and use MIDI to control my other effects for live expression tweaking.

1nput0utput · Post by **1nput0utput** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:39 pm

DBCooper wrote:I am thinking about getting an 828mk3 for a live standalone mixer.
The effects make it an interesting choice.

Have you tried using the effects at 192k?

How much of a hit does the effects engine take at that resolution?

(The literature says it has enough horsepower for eq, compression, and reverb on each channel at 48k)

Effects processing (EQ, compression/limiting, and reverb) is not available at 4X sample rates (176.4kHz and 192kHz).