Modifying a Chunk's Bounds - Film Cue

zaque · Post by **zaque** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:39 am

I've got my reel loaded up and I've created a Chunk sequence for each Cue. This seems to work really well and I'm finding DP's ability to do these kinds of things really helpful and time saving. (big thumbs up for Chunks: sequences, v-racks, etc)

Now I want to modify the length of a Chunk. I have a Cue and I want to add a few negative measures so that I can see a bit of the film before my MUSIC IN begins. I go into Start Times and enter "-3" for my first measure. This adds 3 bars before measure 1...but the movie still starts in the same place (meaning, -3 is esscentially now measure 1 in my Cue...not what I want) However, I want measure 1 to stay locked where it is and just show me 3 bars worth of movie.

What's the best way to add these 3 bars before measure 1.

Thanks

musicarteca · Post by **musicarteca** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:49 am

It is easier that what you think.
- Leave the measures numbered as they were, that is the movie cue starts at measure 1.
- Now go to measure -3, look at the time code. Open start time in your sequence, copy the new time code and in measure write -3.
That is it, you have a four measure pre-roll (including measure 0), and measure 1 is still locked on the same place in relation to the movie.
Note: if you had music already composed on measure 1, then you would have to slide everything 4 measures later.

marcushane · Post by **marcushane** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:40 pm

You can also insert measure. I have = assigned to this in the key commands. Enter 3 measures and it will give you the extra measures you need.

Marcus

zaque · Post by **zaque** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:44 pm

That seems to do the trick...except that my meter changes aren't staying with the measures. I'll play around with it - I bet it's a simple fix.

Thanks!

musicarteca · Post by **musicarteca** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:00 pm

Ok, if you follow my last post, and you already had a tempo map, select all the tracks, including the conductor track and use the shift function to move everything 4 measures (or whatever amount) later.

zaque · Post by **zaque** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:25 pm

Ok, I have my chunk all reset now with 3 bars previous bars (-2, -1, 0)

Thanks for all the help.

For others that may want to attempt this here is what I did (this took me a lot of trial and error)

(Like musicarteca says)

1. Go to measure -2 by typing -2 | 1 | 0 into the Counter
2. Check out the timecode for that bar.
3. Go to Start times... and enter -2 and the new SMPTE start time under frames and press ok.
4. If you have events in your sequence already, go to Edit -> Shift and shift everything the amount you just added (in this example, 3)
5. If you have copied the audio from the movie into your sequence you may need to make a new soundbite for the new length of your sequence.
6. If you, like me, did not have a Conductor Track tempo event, you will lose your tempo that may have been set in the control panel so take this opportunity to add a tempo event to you conductor track.

This is clunky as hell but it does work.

Thanks to all that helped!

Mr_Clifford · Post by **Mr_Clifford** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:27 pm

'Insert Measures' is the exact function that MOTU put in DP to do precisely what you're wanting to do. You enter how many bars you want to add, where you want to insert them, and make sure you select the 'maintain times after insertion point' check box, it will put negative bars before your start point and maintain everything else in the exact location it was before.

zaque · Post by **zaque** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:39 pm

It didn't seem to leave my meter changes where they were.

Mr_Clifford · Post by **Mr_Clifford** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:45 pm

It's always worked perfectly for me. Are you sure you had the 'maintain..' box checked? Actually, even if it wasn't checked the meter changes would have still been in the right place musically, it would have just moved out of sync with the music. I suspect something else happened separate to the 'insert measures' that you didn't notice.

zaque · Post by **zaque** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:48 pm

I should perhaps clarify my "clunky as hell" comment

Insert Measures works just like the method that musicarteca suggested as far as I can tell. Insert Measures is more elegant but not by much...

What is clunky as hell is:

1. The way that audio that has been copied from the movie is handled. The whole manual time stamping business and then having the audio end up in the wrong place and having to manually select "Move to User Timestamp" is clunky. I had to delete the Soundbite for my sequence, drag the whole movie audio back into the sequence, and then Move to User Timestamp in order to get the audio to line up. I just don't get why this can't be more transparent but it works so I won't complain too much

2. Having to Shift my events is clunky. This could just as easily have been an option in the Insert Measures dialog.

3. Having my tempo reset is clunky. I guess the lesson is to just put an event in the Conductor Track anyway - I am sure this is best practice so that's fine...but I still shouldn't have to have my tempo reset. It took me a few minutes and a few retries of all these steps to figure out what happened and then fix it. Clunky.

Thanks again for the help. I'm moving along now

zaque · Post by **zaque** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:55 pm

I take it back, Insert Measures does seem to maintain the Meter Changes - but not for the first bar. If you have 3/4 on measure 1 and then Insert 2 measures, the 3/4 change gets pushed back to bar -1...which is fine. Not sure why I had problems initially and I know I used the Shift function when I did this so I'm really not sure what happened but I can't reproduce this.

Mr_Clifford · Post by **Mr_Clifford** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:52 pm

zaque wrote: If you have 3/4 on measure 1 and then Insert 2 measures, the 3/4 change gets pushed back to bar -1...which is fine.

Yep, they do that, because it's commonly used for count-ins, the count-in will be in the same time signature (and tempo) as the first bar of music.

musicarteca · Post by **musicarteca** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:30 am

zaque wrote: What is clunky as hell is:

1. The way that audio that has been copied from the movie is handled. The whole manual time stamping business and then having the audio end up in the wrong place and having to manually select "Move to User Timestamp" is clunky. I had to delete the Soundbite for my sequence, drag the whole movie audio back into the sequence, and then Move to User Timestamp in order to get the audio to line up. I just don't get why this can't be more transparent but it works so I won't complain too much

I do not understand why you have to do this. If I am not mistaken, what you are doing is selecting a region from your main sequence to work on a separate cue, by choosing "create sequence from selection". If you do this, a new chunk will be created and all the audio will be on the correct spot in reference to the movie, no need to use timestamps at all. What are you doing exactly?

zaque · Post by **zaque** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:57 am

I think part of what I mentioned is in this other thread.

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... highlight=

1. Create a main sequence for the entire reel and add my markers. I also import the Audio from the movie at this point.
2. Duplicate this main sequence (Sequences->Duplicate Chunk)
3. In the new sequence I change the start time to where I want my cue to start. At this point I get warned about markers before the start time being deleted. Now, if I push play from the start of this sequence audio is completely off - meaning that the audio is starting from the beginning of the reel but the sequence/cue i'm working in starts two minutes in...
4. I select the audio in the sequence and go to "Audio->Time Stamps->Move to User Timestamp" and then I get a warning about how it needs to crop the track so I say "ok" and I get my audio perfectly lined up again.

So, if I change the bounds of the cue at this point as explained in this thread above, I need to create a new Soundbite to start -3 frames before where I'd originally cropped it. If I don't create a new soundbite with the new start time there is silence for 3 measures before the audio comes in again because it was cropped. So, I delete the soundbite that was created the first time I set the new start time and then I drag the entire movie audio soundbite into my sequence and do "Move to User Time Stamp", it crops to the new start time, and I'm good to go.

Maybe I'm doing something totally wrong but in other threads people have told me I need to be using the time stamping features to keep my audio in sync with the movie

P.S. I've also tried listening to the audio from the movie file so that I don't have to worry about the Copy Audio from Movie but I'm using a Canopus for video output and it doesn't seem to keep the audio in sync - even with the playback offset. A whole other issue, perhaps...

musicarteca · Post by **musicarteca** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:42 am

zaque wrote: 1. Create a main sequence for the entire reel and add my markers. I also import the Audio from the movie at this point.
2. Duplicate this main sequence (Sequences->Duplicate Chunk)

I would definitively change this step. Instead of duplicating the sequence, select in the timeline a region that corresponds to your first cue, add some pre roll and post roll time. In the transport window choose: "copy selection to new sequence". a new chunk will be created, and the audio from the movie will be copied only from the region selected. I would suggest that you start the selection from the beginning of a measure to make things easier. Maybe 3 measures before the relative cue start. This is very relative, because actually you do not, or should not have to worry about tempos on your main sequence.

This step is critical if you have several audio tracks, for example, if you receive an OMF file, you do not want to duplicate all the tracks in all the sequence, but only those that correspond to the present cue. Lock those tracks.

zaque wrote: 3. In the new sequence I change the start time to where I want my cue to start. At this point I get warned about markers before the start time being deleted. Now, if I push play from the start of this sequence audio is completely off - meaning that the audio is starting from the beginning of the reel but the sequence/cue i'm working in starts two minutes in...

Do not change the start time of the sequence, that will get the movie out of sync with the audio, which is what happened to you. What you have to to is simply go to where you want your playback to start and press the memory start and enable the auto rewind button, you can do the same at the end of the cue, copy the end spot to the memory stop, and enable the auto stop button. Now your playback is limited by the memory boundaries, which are the cue boundaries. Remember to lock the audio tracks at the TO windows so that of you make tempo changes, they will stay locked to the TC.

zaque wrote:4. I select the audio in the sequence and go to "Audio->Time Stamps->Move to User Timestamp" and then I get a warning about how it needs to crop the track so I say "ok" and I get my audio perfectly lined up again. Now you have your playback limited by the auto rewind and stop memories, and locked with the video. Do not forget to lock the audio tracks (in the TO window) so that if you change the tempo of the sequence, the audio will be locked to Time code.

So, if I change the bounds of the cue at this point as explained in this thread above, I need to create a new Soundbite to start -3 frames before where I'd originally cropped it. If I don't create a new soundbite with the new start time there is silence for 3 measures before the audio comes in again because it was cropped. So, I delete the soundbite that was created the first time I set the new start time and then I drag the entire movie audio soundbite into my sequence and do "Move to User Time Stamp", it crops to the new start time, and I'm good to go.

If you do not change your start time, then you don't have to worry about all this. No clunkyness included.

zaque wrote:Maybe I'm doing something totally wrong but in other threads people have told me I need to be using the time stamping features to keep my audio in sync with the movie

Yes and no, I personally use a different approach as yours as explained in the other thread, but timestamps are very helpfull if for example, you have a mix of one of your cues and want to place it into your main/ master sequence, then simply use the timestamps to make it fly into its corresponding spot.

One of the marvels of DP is that you can accomplish the same thing in many different ways, according to everyone's needs.