TI chipsets and Motu- whats the deal?

Quontor · Post by **Quontor** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:30 am

Ive been using Cubase SX (most updated 3.0 version) with a motu 828 firewire troublefree since 2004.

My hard drive recently failed , and upon replacing it, the person fixing my machine insisted I get all the windows upgrades, against my instinct. I still had service pack 1 and had never gotten any upgrades in a few years, keeping a stable system stable by not fixing what aint broke.

Of course having the latest updates and drivers is generally a good thing, so thats what I ended up with. Nonetheless it was with trepidation that I launched cubase and pointed it to the motu device with which had been so familiar in the past. I got lockups, sputtering playback and other delights. But the main problem was Cubase stopped being able to "see" the MOTu device, and indeed the computer didnt see it either, so the problem is at that level.

After several hours of WTF troubleshooting (reinstalling drivers, triple checking all versions and dates of drivers) I was forced to call Motu. Motu blames my VIA chipset onboard firewire, saying literally "Motu doesnt support VIA chipset cards at all". So, this same firewire card and same audio firewire device are now all of a sudden incompatible after years of reliable use. Windows upgrades, I was told, can "trigger" the problem. I asked if this info was on their site, and I was told it was under tech notes. I did find the technote dated MARCH 2008. Which states:
MOTU recommends using strictly FireWire PCI/PCMCIA cards based on the Texas Instrument chipset.
There's an incompatibility between the NEC chip found in some FireWire cards and the MOTU FireWire line of interface.
If the FireWire installer warns you that you're running a FireWire card with the NEC chip, you should replace said card with a card that uses the TI (Texas Instruments) or LSI (formlery Lucent/Agere) chip.
MOTU recommends using strictly FireWire PCI/PCMCIA cards based on the Texas Instrument chipset.
/Agere) chip.

So Im thinking, ok, this is stupid but for expediency's sake I will just buy a $25 TI chipset firewire card. No big deal, right? Wrong. I have been trying to get hold of one for almost a week. THe problem? MAnufacturers specs stating that they use the TI chipset and when you get the thing in the mail you see a VIA chipset plain as day. This has happened now three times to my computer parts guy, and once to me personally when I tried to order one online. I made the guy open the box before he sent it and sure enough it was a VIA chipset despite the manufacturers specs clearly stating TI chipset.

Other places Ive tried to order it online say they are out of stock.

Of course the local stores here in DC dont appear to have it either.

So one problem, namely mine, has unearthed a much greater problem. How many people are now going to be buying TI chipset cards only to find they arent actually TI chipsets? Why is this all of a sudden some rare commodity? And why would MOTU release a tech note THIS month stating you have to have something that you cant actually reliably procure?

BTW, I did install the latest drivers from MOTU on another machine which has an onboard TI chipset firewire port and there appeared to be immediate recognition of the MOTU device. So it appears there is something to this TI spec in relation to their drivers....

Now, theoretically, I think I could roll back both the firewire driver and the MOTU driver to the corresponding older versions, but locating them could be a challenge. When my hard drive died the data was retrieved but Im not sure system level stuff like drivers would be on there.

I finally found rainrecording.com and ordered what they guaranteed to be a TI chipset PCI card (they will take it back if its not a TI chipset). THe sales guy there confirmed the incredible difficulty in locating TI chipset PCI cards, and moreoever, locating them from a manufacturer that wont willy nilly change the chip without notice. It took them months of searching before they found a reliable manufacturer and found the right firewire specs that audio people could reliably use with Motu and whatever else

Why is the tech note dated this month, when this must have been an issue before? Why cant MOTU just write a new driver that works with more chipsets? How can motu say "you better check with the manufacturer" when the manufacturer will most of the time NOT guarantee their specs and NOT take back a card once opened? This is going to get ugly real fast.

Finally, there is the tech support guy who wasnt really interested in hearing about how I did use the MOTU device with a VIA chipset for years. Whats changed? In my case, drivers, I would suppose. Both windows and Motu. But no alternatives whatsoever were offered except a directive to purchase something that until I hold it in my hands tomorrow I have to say is just about unpurchasable.

If THIS puppy doesnt work then I guess I will have to buy a USB audio device. Ive been told that MOTU writes good reliable drivers. My experience indicates otherwise, unless someone can illuminate me.

oliviaarthur · Post by **oliviaarthur** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:40 pm

I am waiting for my PCMCIA firewire card to come in the mail right now. hopefully it will stop the horrifying noise and pop up warnings coming from my ultralite. I cant imagine how hard it would be to make a universal driver.

Quontor · Post by **Quontor** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:23 am

Well somehow Motu managed to write good drivers up till now. However, something has changed, and this strong recommendation to get a specific chipset thats actually pretty hard to find is baffling.

Mojofilter · Post by **Mojofilter** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:20 am

I feel your pain, Quontor. Presently, I'm using an older P4 desktop replacement that has a TI 1394a controller, so I'm not having any problems. However, I'm in the process of building a desktop PC and I want to use a mobo that has an on-board TI 1394a controller, but trying to find that info is like yanking teeth. The alternative is the PCI or PCIe card, but then I run into the same wall you did. This is certainly a quandary I would have avoided had I known about the temperaments of MOTU firewire gear.

Please keep us apprised of your progress, and whether the card from Rain Recording worked out.

Quontor · Post by **Quontor** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:00 am

I will definitely let you know. The people at Raingear seemed to know what was going on. Equally interesting was that they knew about this well before MOTU's tech note dated this month.

What I find odd too is that manufacturers would advertise TI specs and then switch them out. Thats a situation that cant continue indefinitely. If there is indeed anything "special" about the TI chip, then you would think TI would eventually become irritated that manufacturers are using their name when they dont actually have the chip.

-Q

Mojofilter · Post by **Mojofilter** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:56 pm

That is odd. Somebody's got to shout it from that rooftops that some gear is more sensitive to the IEEE 1394a protocol than others, and if they change chips their specs should reflect that change. Craziness. Either that or MOTU's drivers need a rework. I vote both.

Quontor · Post by **Quontor** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:31 pm

Well the good news of the day is that the pyro pci card I purchased from rainrecording.com IS a TI chipset card and now once again I can use Cubase with the Motu 828 as I had been all along.

It should not have been this difficult.

Mojofilter · Post by **Mojofilter** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:17 pm

Would that card be the ADS PYRO PCI 64R2 API-315 1394a?

MartinHines · Post by **MartinHines** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:02 pm

Mojofilter wrote:Would that card be the ADS PYRO PCI 64R2 API-315 1394a?

I purchased the ADS Pyro 64R2 card from NewEgg.com:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6815255014

ADS also makes Firewire PCIe cards and Cardbus:
http://www.adstech.com/products/intro/products.asp

Quontor · Post by **Quontor** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:13 pm

Yes it is. Rainrecording swears ADS has been super reliable with the TI chip spec.

I made it so clear that I had a bad experience that my sales guy actually called me today to verify that what had arrived was correct. I was going to e-mail him and he beat me to it. Thats service. I also think he got worried that maybe he too would have a switched out chipset situation looming. And he might, for all we know. But so far so good with ADS.

I should get the names together of all the manufacturers whose specs said they used TI and didnt. I have to ask my retailer who ordered two to three (I believe) different cards. Just be forwarned what you see may not be what you get. I would make sure the policy of whoever you buy it from allows for return even if opened.

Ironically, the card came in a see through plastic box with cardboard covering just enough of the card that I could not see the chip until I cut open the box!

Atardecer · Post by **Atardecer** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:53 am

This just reminded me of when i was trying to get a TI firewire card here in Australia. I managed to track down on online computer shop in the whole country that had them in stock - a delta card. Most non-audio folks just dont have the need. For some reason though i was able to get a friewire belkin Express Card for my lappy without any hassles. Yeah most shops seem to just humour you about the TI request, thinking that it doesnt make any difference.

Jim

Mojofilter · Post by **Mojofilter** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:40 am

Thank you, Quontor. Martin.

sustainiac · Post by **sustainiac** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:31 pm

Another 1394 Card vendor with TI chipset is SIIG

http://www.siig.com/ViewProductList.aspx?catid=244