sngle cue v. multi-cue DP setup for film scoring

doodles · Post by **doodles** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:34 am

whatever you do, DON'T just do it in one long sequence - this sounds like an awful idea, as any tweak you make when rough cuts are changed, or musical edits are altered are going to screw with the rest of the music after the edit. just splicing a few bars in one q will muck up everything after.

sorry if i'm mis-understanding, but that sounds like an uber-ropey way to go...

dtiger · Post by **dtiger** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:24 am

I never work in one sequence either. What if your file becomes corrupted? Or you're working on a cue in one section of a file and inadvertently screw up another and don't realize it until much later?

One thing I do that hasn't been mentioned yet is to create a "Cues Preview" file with no VI's or other tracks, just a couple of stereo tracks, and import the rough mixes as I finish each cue. It's a file that will open quickly and let you see the big picture, how it's all working together and you can easily move themes around against the picture. I use this to show directors cues as well if there's a show and tell in my studio.

Of course I could be wrong and chunks and v-racks could be the way to go..what the hell do I know anyway, I'm still awake at 2 freaking AM...

doodles · Post by **doodles** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:20 am

One thing I do that hasn't been mentioned yet is to create a "Cues Preview" file with no VI's or other tracks, just a couple of stereo tracks, and import the rough mixes as I finish each cue. It's a file that will open quickly and let you see the big picture, how it's all working together and you can easily move themes around against the picture. I use this to show directors cues as well if there's a show and tell in my studio.

Yep, that's totally the way to go, and what I do. I've got one big Project folder. Inside it are about 50 different DP files - one for each q, but all the audio is in the one audio files folder. So in the main folder you have audio files folder, fades folder, analysis folder and about 50 dp files.

Personally I've never got into using V-racks, etc, and I'm sure I will eventually, as waiting for the Vienna stuff takes quite a while, but I use it as a quick chance to stretch my legs around the studio.

Obviously you can't predict how long each q will be, but I aim never to have one q larger than about 10 minutes. then i do a quick rough mix of each file when it's finished and import the sd2 of it into a "roughs" file - all the roughs in sync with the picture so you can watch as much/as little of the film from any point. This is really important so that you get a feel for the pacing before the q you're working on, and you don't just leap into that specific spot. Otherwise you're going to end up with a whole load of individual pieces of music(q's) which, whilst they might work on their own, won't sound very fluent and cohesive when all put together.

Anyway, good luck with it - sure it'll be great!

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:53 am

doodles wrote:whatever you do, DON'T just do it in one long sequence - this sounds like an awful idea, as any tweak you make when rough cuts are changed, or musical edits are altered are going to screw with the rest of the music after the edit. just splicing a few bars in one q will muck up everything after.

sorry if i'm mis-understanding, but that sounds like an uber-ropey way to go...

Sorry to pop any balloons here, but I also do dialogue editing and SFX (as well as scoring). You HAVE TO do that in one long sequence and I have no problems in doing so in DP.

I may (or may not) write the music cues in separate sequences, but the fact is working in one long cue (I'm talking 20 minutes each here, BTW - as broken into reels by the editors) can and does work.

Longer sequences can also work but are rarely necessary unless it's a very low budget film.

doodles · Post by **doodles** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:20 am

Sorry to pop any balloons here, but I also do dialogue editing and SFX (as well as scoring). You HAVE TO do that in one long sequence and I have no problems in doing so in DP.

Not popping any balloons! It's funny, it's so easy to forget that DP has so many other uses other than the one that I use it for. (scoring soundtracks etc). I think that's the beauty of it, that there are so many ways to get things to work for so many different projects and uses. It's just up to each person to find the way that best suits them, and in the mean time reading this board gives me loads of little secrets for using it - I don't think I'll EVER get to learn them all. still, don't suppose I need to, just what I need to get writing!

musicarteca · Post by **musicarteca** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:48 pm

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Sorry to pop any balloons here, but I also do dialogue editing and SFX (as well as scoring). You HAVE TO do that in one long sequence and I have no problems in doing so in DP.

I may (or may not) write the music cues in separate sequences, but the fact is working in one long cue (I'm talking 20 minutes each here, BTW - as broken into reels by the editors) can and does work.

I totally agree, I think it is a very good idea to have a master sequence to view the entire movie/reel and have the general mood, and to do the audio mix if required.
I think the way to go is to have the best of both worlds, one main sequence with the audio elements (music, dialog, sfx, ambient, foley) and individual projects/ chunks for each cue.

musicarteca · Post by **musicarteca** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:54 pm

MLC, you mentioned that you are used to the the 20 min reels. Usually if I receive a movie split in several parts, I tend to edit it back together and work with the entire movie (maybe is a mistake). How do you handle a piece of music or sfx/ambient that overlaps two reels?

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:01 pm

musicarteca wrote:MLC, you mentioned that you are used to the the 20 min reels. Usually if I receive a movie split in several parts, I tend to edit it back together and work with the entire movie (maybe is a mistake). How do you handle a piece of music or sfx/ambient that overlaps two reels?

That's always tricky. Music NEVER goes over a reel break. If it does, I request a different location for the break. SFX (if continuous and bgr) go right to the end pop (you do use end pops, don't you? ). Then the editor can pick it up and connect it in his master (they have some control over xfades...).

musicarteca · Post by **musicarteca** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:47 pm

MIDI Life Crisis wrote: That's always tricky. Music NEVER goes over a reel break. If it does, I request a different location for the break. SFX (if continuous and bgr) go right to the end pop (you do use end pops, don't you? ). Then the editor can pick it up and connect it in his master (they have some control over xfades...).

Good to know, I imagine that it could really get tricky. So far editors give me end pops but only at the end of the movie, not for each individual reel. I always ask for burned TC though.