lafours,
You mean to say that the regular Phones jack works how it should but that the (MAIN) jack is hot?
Since the (MAIN) for phones is controlled by the same monitor volume / master volume control the (MAIN) phones jack should be as hot as if you're outputting through your main monitors... they should be the same...
Yes, this is going to be impossible to balance because each knob is giving a totally different resolution.
828mk3 Master Attenuation
Moderator: James Steele
Forum rules
Discussion related to installation, configuration and use of MOTU hardware such as MIDI interfaces, audio interfaces, etc. for Mac OSX
Discussion related to installation, configuration and use of MOTU hardware such as MIDI interfaces, audio interfaces, etc. for Mac OSX
-
nooneknows
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: Unspecified
I received my 828mk3 yesterday and set it up to find this exact issue as well. Levels are super hot coming out of the mains. Totally unacceptable. What's worse even yet is another 2 issues I've posted about over at gearslutz which no one has responded to. Please, I hope that somebody might be able to help here. Here's the post:
- Horrible buzzing/hum (more prominent in right/2nd channel) using the main xlr outs to my mackie 824's. The nasty buzzing does not come through via the headphone main or via any 1/4" outputs. Tested both xlr cables and monitors on my mbox and they work perfect.
- 'Monitor Group Assign' tab in Cuemix FX does not function properly. I have my mackies hooked up via the main xlr outputs, however according to the manual I can use my Tapcos as secondary reference monitors via the 1/4" analog outputs by clicking the 'monitor' assign button in Cuemix FX. This SHOULD include those reference monitors in the 'monitor group', allowing the master/main volume on the 828 to control both my mackies, headphones, and tapcos (separately of course). However, I get no audio from my tapcos. But this does control the headphones correctly.
I truly believe I have everything set up right in the Motu Audio Setup Utility. Just in case I do not however here are the screenshots:
http://djholla.net/screen-capture.png
http://djholla.net/screen-capture-1.png
I would appreciate ANY help because this is driving me mad and I'm still stuck after 4 hours of toying around. I'm using leopard with the latest updates and motu drivers on a mac pro 3.2GHz. This buzzing through the xlr mains renders this device utterly useless and the inability to use secondary reference monitors from the 1/4" analog outputs is just stupid. I know there has to be a fix to both of these issues (unless I received a defective unit). Thanks.
- Horrible buzzing/hum (more prominent in right/2nd channel) using the main xlr outs to my mackie 824's. The nasty buzzing does not come through via the headphone main or via any 1/4" outputs. Tested both xlr cables and monitors on my mbox and they work perfect.
- 'Monitor Group Assign' tab in Cuemix FX does not function properly. I have my mackies hooked up via the main xlr outputs, however according to the manual I can use my Tapcos as secondary reference monitors via the 1/4" analog outputs by clicking the 'monitor' assign button in Cuemix FX. This SHOULD include those reference monitors in the 'monitor group', allowing the master/main volume on the 828 to control both my mackies, headphones, and tapcos (separately of course). However, I get no audio from my tapcos. But this does control the headphones correctly.
I truly believe I have everything set up right in the Motu Audio Setup Utility. Just in case I do not however here are the screenshots:
http://djholla.net/screen-capture.png
http://djholla.net/screen-capture-1.png
I would appreciate ANY help because this is driving me mad and I'm still stuck after 4 hours of toying around. I'm using leopard with the latest updates and motu drivers on a mac pro 3.2GHz. This buzzing through the xlr mains renders this device utterly useless and the inability to use secondary reference monitors from the 1/4" analog outputs is just stupid. I know there has to be a fix to both of these issues (unless I received a defective unit). Thanks.
-
sorginetxe
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:48 am
- Primary DAW OS: Unspecified
Hello
It would be good to know if this is happening to everybody. In the Unicornation MOTU-Windows Forum there's another thread talking about this issue, so I think is not about the drivers (being different drivers for OSX and Win)
I mean, if is just an issue appearing in some units, I will return the MK3 asap, even knowing that MOTU is going to be worried about this issue in some MK3s. If it's just a question of firmware or drivers (I don't think so because it's happening in both systems) or directly hardware in all the MK3 units... well I think MOTU's gonna be very worried about getting a very, very fast solution. Indeed the MK3 it's their last device, supossed to make the difference...Presonus, Focusrite, RME, etc. are gonna be very pleased if the issue is not fixed.
Bye!!
It would be good to know if this is happening to everybody. In the Unicornation MOTU-Windows Forum there's another thread talking about this issue, so I think is not about the drivers (being different drivers for OSX and Win)
I mean, if is just an issue appearing in some units, I will return the MK3 asap, even knowing that MOTU is going to be worried about this issue in some MK3s. If it's just a question of firmware or drivers (I don't think so because it's happening in both systems) or directly hardware in all the MK3 units... well I think MOTU's gonna be very worried about getting a very, very fast solution. Indeed the MK3 it's their last device, supossed to make the difference...Presonus, Focusrite, RME, etc. are gonna be very pleased if the issue is not fixed.
Bye!!
-
nooneknows
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: Unspecified
Hopefully MOTU will find a fix soon... I've been in contact with them and they're working on it currently...
Regardless I don't know that I want to wait around... as I'm having another issue with digital screeching... you can find in another thread... MOTU is supposedly looking into this as well.
The Master Attenuation / Volume issue is almost definitely effecting ALL units... as I am now on my 3rd 828mk3 due to trying to fix another issue... all exhibit the same Main Out volume issue.
Hollaone,
It seems like you have indeed hooked everything up correctly, all I can say is that the Monitor Group Assign works as expected for me... and I'm not having buzzing / hum but other digital noise / screeching having to do with the FW bus and bandwidth (even though NOTHING else is hooked up to any FW port on my G5).
Regardless I don't know that I want to wait around... as I'm having another issue with digital screeching... you can find in another thread... MOTU is supposedly looking into this as well.
The Master Attenuation / Volume issue is almost definitely effecting ALL units... as I am now on my 3rd 828mk3 due to trying to fix another issue... all exhibit the same Main Out volume issue.
Hollaone,
It seems like you have indeed hooked everything up correctly, all I can say is that the Monitor Group Assign works as expected for me... and I'm not having buzzing / hum but other digital noise / screeching having to do with the FW bus and bandwidth (even though NOTHING else is hooked up to any FW port on my G5).
MOTU tech support has been replying back an forth with me the last 3 weeks since I got my 828mk3
they are persistant and keep telling me that they have done the tests I have requested them to do, and all have been successfull in terms of what db level they are using on the mk3
they say they are on 0db. i dont see how it is possible since 0db on the mk3 will make you deaf!
there is definitely something wrong with the unit
to prove it - i can tell you that motu shipped out the mk3 with bad drivers on the install disc it came with - what a stupid thing for a well renowned company to do
i even scratched my beautiful workstation desk in the process of moving my motu back and forth from my rack unit, assuming it was maybe my PC that was the fault (this was when the motu would not install due to the wrong drivers) - if only MOTU had told me sooner about the drivers being incorrect.
but no.... motu expect customers to complain about it first. i mean, who the hell ships out drivers without testing them first - DAMN them for the damage!
coming back to the loud output levels, motu tells me that there is nothing wrong with their system. they have compared the mk2 with the mk3 they say
completely not what i asked them to test at all
they are trying to give me a lot of tech jargon instead of a straight answer
they obviously want to prove nothing is wrong with the mk3 device
but trust me, everyone is having a problem with this unit so far
not one person has had any success with it yet
i finally had a 64-bit system with this unit. but then i knew another problem would occur
why cant i just do my music already!
they are persistant and keep telling me that they have done the tests I have requested them to do, and all have been successfull in terms of what db level they are using on the mk3
they say they are on 0db. i dont see how it is possible since 0db on the mk3 will make you deaf!
there is definitely something wrong with the unit
to prove it - i can tell you that motu shipped out the mk3 with bad drivers on the install disc it came with - what a stupid thing for a well renowned company to do
i even scratched my beautiful workstation desk in the process of moving my motu back and forth from my rack unit, assuming it was maybe my PC that was the fault (this was when the motu would not install due to the wrong drivers) - if only MOTU had told me sooner about the drivers being incorrect.
but no.... motu expect customers to complain about it first. i mean, who the hell ships out drivers without testing them first - DAMN them for the damage!
coming back to the loud output levels, motu tells me that there is nothing wrong with their system. they have compared the mk2 with the mk3 they say
completely not what i asked them to test at all
they are trying to give me a lot of tech jargon instead of a straight answer
they obviously want to prove nothing is wrong with the mk3 device
but trust me, everyone is having a problem with this unit so far
not one person has had any success with it yet
i finally had a 64-bit system with this unit. but then i knew another problem would occur
why cant i just do my music already!
hi, i'm new to this forum.
my mk3 works perfectly.
As the manual tells, the MAIN phones out behaviour is not the same as the mk2.
The HOT main outs issue, depend probably on a wrong configuration.
The front MAIN KNOB, control the output selected (MONITOR button enabled) in the CUEMiX FX.
If you select MAIN OUTS as monitor out, the main knob acts esactly as in the mk2 (from MUTE to 0db). It works perfectly for me.
If you use a different configuration the main outs will act as a normal Analog out....then expect +4db.
Be sure to configure correctly the parameters in the audio setup too.
Now you can select the output pair you want to hear from the main outs.
Note
after installing the mk3 the default outs is set to Analog 1-2 (strange...). check this too.
I hope this may help.
PS
sorry for my poor english.
my mk3 works perfectly.
As the manual tells, the MAIN phones out behaviour is not the same as the mk2.
The HOT main outs issue, depend probably on a wrong configuration.
The front MAIN KNOB, control the output selected (MONITOR button enabled) in the CUEMiX FX.
If you select MAIN OUTS as monitor out, the main knob acts esactly as in the mk2 (from MUTE to 0db). It works perfectly for me.
If you use a different configuration the main outs will act as a normal Analog out....then expect +4db.
Be sure to configure correctly the parameters in the audio setup too.
Now you can select the output pair you want to hear from the main outs.
Note
after installing the mk3 the default outs is set to Analog 1-2 (strange...). check this too.
I hope this may help.
PS
sorry for my poor english.
-
nooneknows
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: Unspecified
MrSanto,
It's possible that you're not having the issue, although the MOTU techs I've been working with originally thought it was a hardware issue, and now believe it is indeed an issue with the current firmware, thus something is definitely wrong.
I've seen NO difference in level between setting the monitoring as Main Outs / Stereo / 5.1 / monitoring only the Analog Outs .. etc.... they're all the same.
It's possible that you're not having the issue, although the MOTU techs I've been working with originally thought it was a hardware issue, and now believe it is indeed an issue with the current firmware, thus something is definitely wrong.
I've seen NO difference in level between setting the monitoring as Main Outs / Stereo / 5.1 / monitoring only the Analog Outs .. etc.... they're all the same.
I decided to measure, to try to understand what's happening. DISCLAIMER: I'm no audio engineer, so it's possible that there's some fundamental flaw in what I'm doing. Is there?
I set up as follows:
When I do that, I see results that can't be right. On the meter in the monitor level section of CueMix FX, the indication is -24db. The monitor trim needs to be set to -46db, which is seven tiny detents above mute. On CueMix, the monitor knob shows as being almost all the way down, with two of its tiny rotary bars showing.
I think that 100db on the spl meter should be achieved with the monitor trim on 0db, or at least that the monitor output meter should show 0db (if the signal that is coming into cuemix over firewire is really hotter than 0db). Right?
I do have a voltmeter and a scope. I haven't looked at the output voltage yet, because I'm not sure what I should see (what voltage should I see on which xlr pins, PP or RMS, etc.), but if someone wants to tell me that I could do so.
Anyway, the 828mk3 main outs definitely seem way too hot. Other than that, I really like the box and CueMix FX. I'm living with it by trimming my speakers for +6 input (the quietest that they'll go) and keeping the monitor knob all the way down, but it sure would be nice to get this straightened out.
I set up as follows:
- * Ableton Live generating a test tone at 440Hz, 0db
* Cuemix set up as per Mr. Santo's note - monitoring Main Outs, so monitor knob controls main out volume
* 828mk3 connected to Genelec 1031A powered monitor.
* Monitor input trim set to +4db. I can't find a spec for the 828mk3 main outs anywhere on the web site or in the manual, but it must be +4, no?
* An spl meter on a tripod one meter from the speaker.
When I do that, I see results that can't be right. On the meter in the monitor level section of CueMix FX, the indication is -24db. The monitor trim needs to be set to -46db, which is seven tiny detents above mute. On CueMix, the monitor knob shows as being almost all the way down, with two of its tiny rotary bars showing.
I think that 100db on the spl meter should be achieved with the monitor trim on 0db, or at least that the monitor output meter should show 0db (if the signal that is coming into cuemix over firewire is really hotter than 0db). Right?
I do have a voltmeter and a scope. I haven't looked at the output voltage yet, because I'm not sure what I should see (what voltage should I see on which xlr pins, PP or RMS, etc.), but if someone wants to tell me that I could do so.
Anyway, the 828mk3 main outs definitely seem way too hot. Other than that, I really like the box and CueMix FX. I'm living with it by trimming my speakers for +6 input (the quietest that they'll go) and keeping the monitor knob all the way down, but it sure would be nice to get this straightened out.
Last edited by PostPCMan on Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This really sucks - my report from tech links
The following section is what Rich at Tech support replied to me regarding my continuous complaint about the master volume and loud -80db output level
(bare in mind this was all after he insisted it was working just fine)
Added by Rich on 2008/03/25 14:25:18 GMT-5:
Through additional testing, we have determined that the 828mk3 master volume level does not always correspond with the attenuation being applied to the outputs assigned to the monitor group. This issue affects both the front panel MASTER VOL knob and the CueMix FX MONITOR LEVEL knob. The primary symptom of this issue is that the signal level at the monitor group outputs is higher than the MASTER VOL level and MONITOR LEVEL controls indicate. We expect to address this issue with a future update to the 828mk3 firmware. Updates will be announced at motu.com as they become available.
this was my reply...
EditAdded by bossent20 on 2008/03/26 21:52:10 GMT-5:
well i think i will be giving this back to the shop then
i cannot wait for a new firmware and what i do not understand is why you guys did not know this before finalising the product
i am a game developer working in the QA Team Lead department
there is not way i would let a software title go to store shelves without serious testing first
either you tested the product or you didnt
but there it no way possible that it took your tech team this long to agree with this problem we are all facing. we all found this issue upon first installing the unit.
if it took you guys further testing to find this out then something is definitely wrong here
i am sending this back to the stores
i do not wish to buy any motu products again
but thank you for your time at least
i dont mean to be rude and tell you i dont like your stuff, but after the problems i faced and the agrovation caused i am really pissed off and do not wish to take this further
i will go for a different unit entirely
cheers!
(bare in mind this was all after he insisted it was working just fine)
Added by Rich on 2008/03/25 14:25:18 GMT-5:
Through additional testing, we have determined that the 828mk3 master volume level does not always correspond with the attenuation being applied to the outputs assigned to the monitor group. This issue affects both the front panel MASTER VOL knob and the CueMix FX MONITOR LEVEL knob. The primary symptom of this issue is that the signal level at the monitor group outputs is higher than the MASTER VOL level and MONITOR LEVEL controls indicate. We expect to address this issue with a future update to the 828mk3 firmware. Updates will be announced at motu.com as they become available.
this was my reply...
EditAdded by bossent20 on 2008/03/26 21:52:10 GMT-5:
well i think i will be giving this back to the shop then
i cannot wait for a new firmware and what i do not understand is why you guys did not know this before finalising the product
i am a game developer working in the QA Team Lead department
there is not way i would let a software title go to store shelves without serious testing first
either you tested the product or you didnt
but there it no way possible that it took your tech team this long to agree with this problem we are all facing. we all found this issue upon first installing the unit.
if it took you guys further testing to find this out then something is definitely wrong here
i am sending this back to the stores
i do not wish to buy any motu products again
but thank you for your time at least
i dont mean to be rude and tell you i dont like your stuff, but after the problems i faced and the agrovation caused i am really pissed off and do not wish to take this further
i will go for a different unit entirely
cheers!
-
nooneknows
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: Unspecified
bossent20,
I have been dealing with Charles at MOTU tech support... I have to say he has been extremely helpful in comparison to your experience with Rich. From my initial concern about the Master Volume issue he has only tried to help me solve the problem and his most recent reply detailed that it does seem to be a firmware issue.
All this aside, yes... I'd like to know how something like this left production. Did they even plug these things in?
This has made me question MOTU's ideas about what is professional.
I've looked into the other options for this interface line... the Fireface 800, which lacks display meters, an external volume control, and 5.1, 7.1 monitoring... and the Apogee Ensemble, which is way overpriced, lacks the MIDI I/O (not a HUGE issue), as well as the 2nd channel of ADAT (BIGGER issue), but has the external display and a Volume Control with 5.1 and 7.1 monitoring. I'm at a loss for what to do here... I'd like to keep the mk3 because it has exactly what I'm looking for, a good combo of the Fireface and the Ensemble, at a much better price... although I just worry about what issues lie ahead with this interface if I were to keep it around.
Just curious as to what your new choice will be?
I have been dealing with Charles at MOTU tech support... I have to say he has been extremely helpful in comparison to your experience with Rich. From my initial concern about the Master Volume issue he has only tried to help me solve the problem and his most recent reply detailed that it does seem to be a firmware issue.
All this aside, yes... I'd like to know how something like this left production. Did they even plug these things in?
This has made me question MOTU's ideas about what is professional.
I've looked into the other options for this interface line... the Fireface 800, which lacks display meters, an external volume control, and 5.1, 7.1 monitoring... and the Apogee Ensemble, which is way overpriced, lacks the MIDI I/O (not a HUGE issue), as well as the 2nd channel of ADAT (BIGGER issue), but has the external display and a Volume Control with 5.1 and 7.1 monitoring. I'm at a loss for what to do here... I'd like to keep the mk3 because it has exactly what I'm looking for, a good combo of the Fireface and the Ensemble, at a much better price... although I just worry about what issues lie ahead with this interface if I were to keep it around.
Just curious as to what your new choice will be?
The other option is the TC Electronic Konnekt 48 which looks really nice, has TC preamps and reverb, comes with a hardware remote, and I think has a few more input channels. But it's double the price. Also, the word is that the drivers had major problems - way worse than the 828 output problem, I think - though perhaps they've fixed that by now.
I used to make really reliable software that runs in places like spaceships, medical equipment, flight computers and anti-lock brakes, so I'm also very sensitive to quality. Yes, motu definitely screwed up. However, I think the 828mk3 is still the best option for me and I plan to continue with it. I'm assuming that they'll fix the hot outputs soon, and other than that my unit works quite well.
I used to make really reliable software that runs in places like spaceships, medical equipment, flight computers and anti-lock brakes, so I'm also very sensitive to quality. Yes, motu definitely screwed up. However, I think the 828mk3 is still the best option for me and I plan to continue with it. I'm assuming that they'll fix the hot outputs soon, and other than that my unit works quite well.