Upgrading to Mac Pro

[mjl660]

I am seeking advice as I'm planning to upgrade my severely outdated G4 400MHZ purchased in 2001 to a Mac Pro soon. I'm currently running DP 4.12 and use MACH Five and EZ drummer for drum tracks. I primarily record audio as a guitarist/bassist. I realize i will need to upgrade DP however a tech at the Apple store warned me to make sure my sequencer is compatible with 8-core if i go that route stating that i would need a patch of some sort? Is this true?

Also, are the 2.8 GHZ 8 cores that much faster than the 2.8GHZ 4-cores all things equal (memory etc)? I am trying to avoid making the same mistake when I bought my G4 in 2001 as they were already releasing the dual g5 when I bought my G4 and it seemed to become outdated quickly. I record primarily as a hobby, but don't mind spending $200-300 extra if it makes a big difference. If I purchase either the 2.8 4-core or 8-core, will I have any problems running the latest DP version on either of these machines? How much memory would you recommend and would you recommend upgrading after purchasing from Apple (cheaper with after market memory)?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

[Frodo]

I realize i will need to upgrade DP however a tech at the Apple store warned me to make sure my sequencer is compatible with 8-core if i go that route stating that i would need a patch of some sort? Is this true?

It is true, but with the latest version of DP this would NOT be a problem. You should make sure first that ALL of the software you want to run is Leopard compatible and upgrade accordingly.

Be careful of statements that say "10.4 or later". These might have been posted prior to the release of Leopard. Confirm that your software is *specifically* 10.5-compatible.

Also, are the 2.8 GHZ 8 cores that much faster than the 2.8GHZ 4-cores all things equal (memory etc)?

Yes and no. Double the cores will offer a speed bump for what you are using, but likewise for what you are using the performance boost may be marginal. If you have specific reasons for getting an 8-core it means that you'd be running a quantity of plugins and instruments and other gizmos that would require gobs of RAM. Right now, DP can only make use of 3.5-4GB RAM, so at some point the differences between the 4 and the 8 core are going to amount to overkill-- until such time DP and everything else goes to 64-bit threading. Then, cores that are more powerful and more abundant will be put to good use.

Among the nicest things about the new MacPros, imho, has to do with faster firewire buses (2.5Ghz up from 33Mhz), faster front side busses and caches, etc. These internal improvements seem to be included on all the new machines regardless of CPU speed, and such specs will mean overall great performance in a number of ways. These will make a much bigger difference than the CPUs which are now working well beneath their capacities with today's software-- but that will change sooner than later. Software is going to get better (already is getting better) by taking better advantage of today's hardware.

If I purchase either the 2.8 4-core or 8-core, will I have any problems running the latest DP version on either of these machines?

99 and 44/100% certain that this will not be a problem. Plus, DP6 is on the way. It is most likely being developed with one of the latest MacPros in mind-- and with Leopard in mind as well. That should be more comfy than just having a standard Universal Binary update.

How much memory would you recommend and would you recommend upgrading after purchasing from Apple (cheaper with after market memory)?

4-6 GB, but I wouldn't recommend less than 4GB.

And yes, third-party RAM is as good, sometimes better and definitely cheaper than Apple's RAM.

RAM Starter Links:

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/memory/Mac-Pro-Memory

http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts. ... 0Series%29

http://www.datamemorysystems.com/_apple ... y_1495.asp

Also, keep in mind that if your current machine is a G4 400, the new machine will knock your socks off.

[IAMLFO]

Greetings MJ,
I have been in the Mac world now for about 5 or 6 months now and so my perspective is `fresh'. Whether that is good or not is up to you.

I do not see any purpose to go with 8 cores mainly because I don't know of any software that takes advantage of it. However, they will soon enough. Additionally, having two physical CPUs allows for instruction load balancing that you cannot take advantage of with a single CPU. So, since you are not paying any extra for it the 8 cores makes sense.

What makes *no sense at all* is paying $800 for a .2 gigahertz bump and $1600 for a .4 Ghz bump. Talk about a bad bang for your buck! Stay with the 2.8 Ghz processor. You will be just fine.

I would purchase all of the following add-ons from otherworldcomputing.com instead of paying Apple and arm and a leg:

Memory
Hard Drives
Graphics Card
Any other hardware

By the way, don't trade in your RAM for a credit if you purchase RAM from Otherworldcomputing. If you ever have to turn in your Mac for repair you need to put the original RAM in the box or Apple will say you have violated the warranty.

My opinion, but don't waste money on a RAID. The benefit (it is arguable if there is any) does not merit the cost.

I *love* Apple monitors, but you pay a hefty price for them. You can get just as good for alot less from the likes of newegg tigerdirect, buy.com, etc.

Never get a hard drive that spins less than 7200 RPM and always purchase multiple drives so you can seperate the OS from samples, project files, etc. I always have an OS drive for the OS and programs, a projects drive and a sample drive. With a Mac Pro you can go all internal, if you go external for any use Firewire 800 drives. I prefer Glyph, others are valid choices also. 7200 RPMs works great, slower is too slow and faster ( 10,000) does not seem to add any discernible benefit.

If you get a USB hub make sure it is powered and provides 500 mA of power to *each* hub.

I think I just wrote the overkill response of the year. Did I answer your question? LOL!

Hope this helps,

-Kevin

[jmc]

This is great advice, guys. I'm in almost the same boat as MJ, and have been spec'ing out a new system for a while (whilst saving my money). Thanks for the RAM links!

[Frodo]

(whilst saving my money). ....

J!!!

"Whilst"?

Where are you *really* from?

Across "the pond", mayhaps?

[Shooshie]

I'm using the 2.66 GHz Quad (dual-duos) and I'm still just blown away by how powerful this thing is. It's a wonderful computer. This, running Leopard and DP 5.13, is the best, most stable, most fun DP setup I've ever used. I couldn't have dreamed of this 5 years ago.

Shooshie

[Shooshie]

We used "whilst" in East Texas when I was growing up. We also used the subjunctive tense, which is rapidly disappearing. My father's lineage comes from Hazard, Kentucky, where an English colony migrated to be apart from the other colonies. So cut-off were they from the rest of the world that when discovered by outsiders, it was believed that they were speaking an unknown language, which in fact was Elizabethan English! Their speech had not evolved as had the rest of the English-speaking New World's speech. While that was far in the past, and although my father grew up chiefly in Oklahoma, a certain difference remained in his and his family's accent. Indeed, when I was in Hazard last summer, I was amazed to find that the older women there sounded just like my father's mother! That was a sound I'd never heard elsewhere. So... not all unusual British accents come from across the pond! Well... Hazard's accent couldn't be called British even by a stretch, but it is unusual, and apparently for good reason!

Shooshie

[HCMarkus]

DP supports multi-threading, so it will use 8 cores. Today.

Whilst we're at it, the 10k drives (WD Raptors) have proved very nice for a boot drive or VIs, but the margin of performance over 7k drives has been shrinking as platter densities increase.

My advice: Get the fastest computer you can afford when it's time to buy. Get it working, then strive mightily to resist the (almost irresistible) urge to upgrade.

[toodamnhip]

I am running old waves with DP 5.13 on a 2.5 PPC.
'How well can I expect the waves updates to work especially as regards older files continuing to work with the newest vers of waves and a new 8 core system and the latest os?

[monkey man]

... Plus, DP6 is on the way. It is most likely being developed with one of the latest MacPros in mind-- and with Leopard in mind as well.

I believe the DP6 demo at NAMM used an 8 core machine running Leopard, so it's a no-brainer really.

[IAMLFO]

DP supports multi-threading, so it will use 8 cores. Today.

Whilst we're at it, the 10k drives (WD Raptors) have proved very nice for a boot drive or VIs, but the margin of performance over 7k drives has been shrinking as platter densities increase.

My advice: Get the fastest computer you can afford when it's time to buy. Get it working, then strive mightily to resist the (almost irresistible) urge to upgrade.

HC, not to doubt you, but this is a gray area that I would like to get clear information about. Threading in and of itself can be dispatched across multiple CPUs and cores, however code has to be specifically written to take advantage of 8 cores. In other words, threading in and of itself will not take advantage of 8 cores as I understand it. Has MOTU officially stated that 8 cores are supported? Just trying to clear the muddy waters...

-Kevin

[chadd]

I recently upgraded to a 2.8GHz 8-core Mac Pro from a dual 1GHz G4 MDD. I've been working on a project with 23 EWQLSO instruments. On the G4, I could only have between 4 and 8 instruments playing simultaneously (buffer set to 1024) before the CPUs would overload and I'd have to bounce the VI audio to disk, unload the instruments, and load up the next group of 8. I spent more time bouncing and loading that I did composing.

With the Mac Pro, I can have all 23 instruments playing simultaneously with the buffer set to 128. According to the Activity Monitor, all 8 cores are humming along at around 5%.

[Timeline]

My dual 4gb ram sticks are on the way but I just recorded a new tune yesterday that rocks and even with the 2gb in the machine it works great.
I can definatly see slowdowns though as a result of not enough ram so minimum 4gb is a great tip. My system will sit at 10gb and that will likely carry me through 2013.

Cheers.

[IAMLFO]

I recently upgraded to a 2.8GHz 8-core Mac Pro from a dual 1GHz G4 MDD. I've been working on a project with 23 EWQLSO instruments. On the G4, I could only have between 4 and 8 instruments playing simultaneously (buffer set to 1024) before the CPUs would overload and I'd have to bounce the VI audio to disk, unload the instruments, and load up the next group of 8. I spent more time bouncing and loading that I did composing.

With the Mac Pro, I can have all 23 instruments playing simultaneously with the buffer set to 128. According to System Profiler, all 8 cores are humming along at around 5%.

That is some of the most useful information I have seen regarding 8 core boxes. 5% is much lower than I would have expected for 23 instruments. How much memory do you have on the box?

-Kevin

[kurtl]

Same here. Just for fun I made a file with 24 audio trks @ 88.2 sampling 24 bit, and as many UAD1E plugs as I could use, and I finally broke 10 % in user apps. The system took 2%. So I was using about 12 to 13% total. And that was @ 128 buffer rate. I guess the next issue might be hard drive speed. Us "MacPro users with 342/? audio trks. will be whining. We want 20.000 RPM Drives. Oh if only. BTW I could only get about 7/8 UAD1E plugs to go at that sampling rate.