Live recording setup.

[melonhead]

Ok here is the spill. I like to record live. I use a Mackie Onyx 1640 firewire out into DP. I would like to know of a better way to isolate the drums. I usually have a Beta 52A on the kick and a matched pair of condensers as overheads. I am of course getting tons of bleed on the overheads. Is there a way I could help prevent this with out leaving the drummer in the trailer at the gigs?

[BradLyons]

I record live all the time and bleed isn't an issue, I'm willing to bet your gain is just too much. That's a common mistake many fall into, but it sounds like you're both recording and running FOH together--yes? As to the kick, put a moving blanket or two around the kick drum and over the mic. It won't look good, but it will help the sound. As to overheads, what mics are you using? How close to the kit are they?

[melonhead]

Yes I am doing both at the same time. I have used Audio Technica ATM31a as overheads for the last few shows but I just picked up a set of Oktava MK-012. I have yet to try them. The mics are generally high up on boom stands. The band is usually in tight quarters. I think my wording was wrong on the initial post. I am looking for a way to clean them up so I can go back and punch some tracks.

[BradLyons]

Mics don't need to be up high over a drum kit, in fact I prefer lower..... and you don't need much gain, it's different than recording say a guitar. Try placing the mics about 12" above the kit in cardiod, make sure to use SDC mics too. I bet you'll get MUCH better results. I am hired out to record a very large scale gospel concert every year where I use no less than 50-microphones. While the stage is big, there is LOTS of sound going on with 14-monitor mixes. In a tighter space, you have more limitations obviously---but bleed in live sound is fine. Too much in the wrong places, that's a problem.

[duncan]

Charter Oaks, a boutique mic company, makes a tube sdc specifically for drum overheads in small rooms where you'd want a tighter pickup pattern. That might help. Or, if the venu has a really high ceiling, you could try something like AT4050's in figure 8 pattern. Figure 8 pattern has very good rejection at the sides, but I don't know if it's legal to use figure 8's as drum OH.

[gregwhartley]

I agree with Brad's point that closer overheads will solve bleed issues. Closer overheads mean lower gain. An old employer of mine once explained gain like this:

"You start off with a tiny sphere of absorption, where that sphere grows from depends on the pickup pattern (not always a perfect sphere, mind you). As the gain is increased, the diameter of the sphere widens, absorbing all which comes in contact with it. These absorbed sounds end up in your signal."

This logic has always worked for me, in conjunction with knowledge of the applied microphone's pickup pattern(s).

Additionally, you may want to experiment with drum placement in the room. Getting drums out of the corner of a room will widen your OH's stereo image and reduce bleed as well.

[melonhead]

I think this makes sense I can lower the mics and turn down the gain(they are not going to FOH anyway) and it will be a more focused pickup. Possibly more drums and less other. Do you think a drum shield would help?

[gregwhartley]

Do you think a drum shield would help?

Maybe, but look out for any washy cymbal effect they may introduce (a la late night talk show musical guests). I like to avoid those things, but lots of people seem to swear by them.