CPU spiking & plugins... why?
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This forum is for seeking solutions to technical problems involving Digital Performer and/or plug-ins on MacOS, as well as feature requests, criticisms, comparison to other DAWs.
This forum is for seeking solutions to technical problems involving Digital Performer and/or plug-ins on MacOS, as well as feature requests, criticisms, comparison to other DAWs.
- auptown
- Posts: 337
- Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:08 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Boulder, CO
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CPU spiking & plugins... why?
OK, this is weird. I have a project with 3 stereo audio tracks, with sporadic dialog sections a second or two long. All three have a send going to another audio track with a reverb plugin. The three tracks also have MOTU gates on them.
Here's what happens: when the audio kicks in for a track, after a small silence, I get a CPU spike. If I have the gates on (not disabled), I get the spikes a lot more. Perfectly repeatable, once it's happening it happens every time at the same places.
So I watch the CPU meter and I see spike, spike, spike.
Lot's of things change it, like using Rayspace or Arts Acoustic it happens more, and if I disable the gates it happens less. But it never goes away?
What is this?? I'm running at 256 buffers, and I've tried some other settings changes but nothing is making this go away.
Here's what happens: when the audio kicks in for a track, after a small silence, I get a CPU spike. If I have the gates on (not disabled), I get the spikes a lot more. Perfectly repeatable, once it's happening it happens every time at the same places.
So I watch the CPU meter and I see spike, spike, spike.
Lot's of things change it, like using Rayspace or Arts Acoustic it happens more, and if I disable the gates it happens less. But it never goes away?
What is this?? I'm running at 256 buffers, and I've tried some other settings changes but nothing is making this go away.
MacPro 2x2.66, 5G ram, 1 SATA, 2 raptors, 2408 mk3, MOTU HD192, Mackie MCU
Dual 2.0g G5, 7g ram, 1 SATA drive, 1 IDE drive, Duende, Liquid Mix, UAD-1,
OS X 10.4.11, DP 5.13, MOTU 2408mk3, BFD, RMX, Atmosphere, EWQLSO Gold XP, Ethno, Grace m906, Blue Sky 5.1 monitors
MacBook Pro 2.13 3G ram, ext FW drive
Dual 2.0g G5, 7g ram, 1 SATA drive, 1 IDE drive, Duende, Liquid Mix, UAD-1,
OS X 10.4.11, DP 5.13, MOTU 2408mk3, BFD, RMX, Atmosphere, EWQLSO Gold XP, Ethno, Grace m906, Blue Sky 5.1 monitors
MacBook Pro 2.13 3G ram, ext FW drive
There are plenty of posts and plenty of reasons for these. However, a friend of mine just spent a whole boatload of time trying to get his machine to not spike. He tried clean installs, replacing memory, etc.
What eventually worked for him was to shut off dashboard. There is a little utility that will turn it on and off for you.
I'd try this as one of my first ideas, since it is so easy to try. Let us know what you come up with.
What eventually worked for him was to shut off dashboard. There is a little utility that will turn it on and off for you.
I'd try this as one of my first ideas, since it is so easy to try. Let us know what you come up with.
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MacPro2.66/3GB/828mk3/Rosetta800/UAD-2Quad/Waves/
MacPro2.66/3GB/828mk3/Rosetta800/UAD-2Quad/Waves/
-
- Posts: 4827
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FWIW, I've learned not to get too upset about spikes. I get one at least once a session, if not three times a session, about every three days or so. Big projects, small projects, lots of plugs, no plugs, doesn't seem to make a difference.
If the processor spikes and it doesn't ruin any audio, then I kind of ignore it.
If the processor gets "stuck" in the red, then I know a crash is imminent and I immediately mute my mixing board, because crashes can often be accompanied by that screeching ear-shattering digital noise explosion coming through my audio interface. Not a pleasant experience.
I do notice that I see more spikes anytime I'm under 512 buffer size. At 256 they start to occur more often, at 128 even more often, at 64 - geez, I don't think I've ever cranked them down that far. I don't even know if 64 is an option for buffer size in DP.
If the processor spikes and it doesn't ruin any audio, then I kind of ignore it.
If the processor gets "stuck" in the red, then I know a crash is imminent and I immediately mute my mixing board, because crashes can often be accompanied by that screeching ear-shattering digital noise explosion coming through my audio interface. Not a pleasant experience.
I do notice that I see more spikes anytime I'm under 512 buffer size. At 256 they start to occur more often, at 128 even more often, at 64 - geez, I don't think I've ever cranked them down that far. I don't even know if 64 is an option for buffer size in DP.
- auptown
- Posts: 337
- Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:08 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Boulder, CO
- Contact:
XY -- thanks for the idea, I have had dashboard disabled on that machine for a while now.
Normally I wouldn't worry much, but it's just that these spikes happen exactly when some sound gets sent to a reverb plugin, and it's repeatable. There has to be *something* going on here.
Also, I have trouble with the reverb effect itself. Some sound bites get no reverb, sometimes the reverb tail cuts off too soon. And this is even after I merge soundbites in the whole track.
Odd, very odd.
Normally I wouldn't worry much, but it's just that these spikes happen exactly when some sound gets sent to a reverb plugin, and it's repeatable. There has to be *something* going on here.
Also, I have trouble with the reverb effect itself. Some sound bites get no reverb, sometimes the reverb tail cuts off too soon. And this is even after I merge soundbites in the whole track.
Odd, very odd.
MacPro 2x2.66, 5G ram, 1 SATA, 2 raptors, 2408 mk3, MOTU HD192, Mackie MCU
Dual 2.0g G5, 7g ram, 1 SATA drive, 1 IDE drive, Duende, Liquid Mix, UAD-1,
OS X 10.4.11, DP 5.13, MOTU 2408mk3, BFD, RMX, Atmosphere, EWQLSO Gold XP, Ethno, Grace m906, Blue Sky 5.1 monitors
MacBook Pro 2.13 3G ram, ext FW drive
Dual 2.0g G5, 7g ram, 1 SATA drive, 1 IDE drive, Duende, Liquid Mix, UAD-1,
OS X 10.4.11, DP 5.13, MOTU 2408mk3, BFD, RMX, Atmosphere, EWQLSO Gold XP, Ethno, Grace m906, Blue Sky 5.1 monitors
MacBook Pro 2.13 3G ram, ext FW drive
Things I've found that cause spikes:
1. Busy firewire busses-- Solution: split up data paths across independent busses, especially if a FW audio interface is involved. Run as much data as possible to/from SATA.
2. Running effects in real time-- Solution: pre-render effects
3. Low buffers- Solution: raise buffers
4. Not enough RAM for the tasks at hand- Solution: add more RAM if possible or try to economize on CPU-hungry plugins like reverbs-- submix to aux's whenever possible and use independent instances of reverbs only when absolutely necessary-- freeze tracks whenever possible, especially if lost of convolution reverbs are in use.
5. Virtual Memory not having enough time to rewrite file references or having too much data at once to refresh file references. --Solution: Adjust DP's Work Quanta. This governs the frequency at which MAS does its calculations. Raising the number to above 100ms might help--- Solution: Check any VI's preferences and set its disk usage/streaming higher.
6. Dropped voices-- Solution: make sure you have enough stereo busses available in your Bundles, and be aware that there are voice limits based upon the amount of RAM you have installed. DP will drop voices if there is not enough memory.
Also, be aware that DP has been known to just spike even on boot. Just opening a project can show the red peak indicator without even hitting play the first time. This might be resolved in DP6, but such spikes are not uncommon in DP5 and earlier.
One unothodox solution that worked on my PPCs: Set host multiplier to 2. This is VERY unorthodox, I know-- but it helped lower CPU spikes. YMMV!!!
1. Busy firewire busses-- Solution: split up data paths across independent busses, especially if a FW audio interface is involved. Run as much data as possible to/from SATA.
2. Running effects in real time-- Solution: pre-render effects
3. Low buffers- Solution: raise buffers
4. Not enough RAM for the tasks at hand- Solution: add more RAM if possible or try to economize on CPU-hungry plugins like reverbs-- submix to aux's whenever possible and use independent instances of reverbs only when absolutely necessary-- freeze tracks whenever possible, especially if lost of convolution reverbs are in use.
5. Virtual Memory not having enough time to rewrite file references or having too much data at once to refresh file references. --Solution: Adjust DP's Work Quanta. This governs the frequency at which MAS does its calculations. Raising the number to above 100ms might help--- Solution: Check any VI's preferences and set its disk usage/streaming higher.
6. Dropped voices-- Solution: make sure you have enough stereo busses available in your Bundles, and be aware that there are voice limits based upon the amount of RAM you have installed. DP will drop voices if there is not enough memory.
Also, be aware that DP has been known to just spike even on boot. Just opening a project can show the red peak indicator without even hitting play the first time. This might be resolved in DP6, but such spikes are not uncommon in DP5 and earlier.
One unothodox solution that worked on my PPCs: Set host multiplier to 2. This is VERY unorthodox, I know-- but it helped lower CPU spikes. YMMV!!!
6,1 MacPro, 96GB RAM, macOS Monterey 12.7, macOS 10.14, DP9.52
Re: CPU spiking & plugins... why?
Looking @ your sig you have quite a bit happening on that FW buss...auptown wrote:OK, this is weird. I have a project with 3 stereo audio tracks, with sporadic dialog sections a second or two long. All three have a send going to another audio track with a reverb plugin. The three tracks also have MOTU gates on them.
Here's what happens: when the audio kicks in for a track, after a small silence, I get a CPU spike. If I have the gates on (not disabled), I get the spikes a lot more. Perfectly repeatable, once it's happening it happens every time at the same places.
So I watch the CPU meter and I see spike, spike, spike.
Lot's of things change it, like using Rayspace or Arts Acoustic it happens more, and if I disable the gates it happens less. But it never goes away?
What is this?? I'm running at 256 buffers, and I've tried some other settings changes but nothing is making this go away.
Are you using a PCIe firewire card or just the Mac Pro's?
Does it do it once in a while or is it just with this project? 3 stereo tracks.. this is not good. Unless I'm playing a VI I rarely have my buffers below 1024 anyway so...
My DSP meter is around 10- 15% on a session like this @ most.
I have a LM also and It eats some cycles off the FW bus (and you have a Duende too!) so I just set up a template with the maximum amount of plugs it can handle (32 mono or 16 stereo) and only turn on those tracks that I'm using @ the moment and I don't have too many problems...
But since I set up a ROCK SOLID working template, I haven't had any problems but I'm not a facility where you have to accommodate different clients etc. so.
Also make sure you have on the plugins "always run in realtime" checked. I know my LM acts up big-time unless this is checked on EACH instance used...
Just my 2 cents but I would remove each FW device and see if they are the culprit... Just doing this you may find that one of the FW peripherals are the problem and to take the appropriate measures.
Last edited by newrigel on Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Spikey Horse
- Posts: 1841
- Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:50 pm
- Primary DAW OS: Unspecified
I doubt this is it, but one more for the road:
- disable all automatic background processing
Actually I remember getting very brief CPU spikes along with hardly noticeable (but still there!) audio glitches from BFD (this was years ago) when bouncing MIDI tracks to audio in real time ... always in the same places too! ... eventually turning off background processing stopped it, so you never know.....
- disable all automatic background processing
Actually I remember getting very brief CPU spikes along with hardly noticeable (but still there!) audio glitches from BFD (this was years ago) when bouncing MIDI tracks to audio in real time ... always in the same places too! ... eventually turning off background processing stopped it, so you never know.....
-
- Posts: 90
- Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:20 am
- Primary DAW OS: Unspecified
Re: CPU spiking & plugins... why?
Yes, i have had that problem since i switched from DP4, and there are a couple lengthy threads about it around the internet. No combination of settings will make it go away. it only happens with certain plugins on silent passages It is absolutely repeatable, so I have had to just work around it and pray that it gets fixed in DP6.auptown wrote:Here's what happens: when the audio kicks in for a track, after a small silence, I get a CPU spike. If I have the gates on (not disabled), I get the spikes a lot more. Perfectly repeatable, once it's happening it happens every time at the same places.
Dp5.13 and DP6.01 + OSX.4.11 and OSX.5.5, various Intel and PPC towers desktops and Powerbooks...
-
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- Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:28 am
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Central New Mexico
What utility will turn off dashboard. Is it part of the os or a DL app?XYZ wrote:d. There is a little utility that will turn it on and off for you.
Thanks
Ron
MacPro Nehalem quad core, 2.66gHz, 8gb DDR1066 ram, OS 10.85, DP 8.05 1224/MTPAV, UAD 2 card, Kontakt 3/B4 II, CAD VX2 tube mic, 2 Avalon 737SP, Tascam M2516 8 buss recording mixer, Lexicon PCM91, Eastman 910, Eastman El Rey2 Fender Blues Deluxe, Handbuilt 30 watt Fender Princeton kit w/Weber Cermic 12", 64 Jazz bass I got new. and a 30hp orange diesel tractor!! 4wd 2 speed axel, named kioti.
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iMac 2.7Ghz quadcore i5 16 gig RAM DP 7.24 OS 10.6.8, iMac G5 2.1GHz 2.5 gig Ram DP 5.13 OS 10.4.11 MOTU 828 MK2, East West Platinum Plus, Miroslav Philharmonic, Komplete 5, Kontakt 2 Garritan Big Band, Mr Sax T, The Trumpet, DrumCore, Trilogy and Trillian, Ivory, MachFive, Ethno Instrument, Reason 4, SampleTank 2 Sampletron, Samplemoog, Melodyne Editor, Nomad plugins, Vintage Warmer, Ozone 4, Amplitube Jimi, Xgear and AmpegSVX.
http:www.davidosuna.com
http:www.davidosuna.com
-
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- Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:28 am
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- Location: Central New Mexico
Thank you for the link but I don't see anything about dashboard in the seven pages that this link leads to. Naturally I did not want to read seven pages of material. But I scanned every page and saw nothing about Dashboard or any link to DL an app. Could you please be more specific? What is the name of the app.
Ron
MacPro Nehalem quad core, 2.66gHz, 8gb DDR1066 ram, OS 10.85, DP 8.05 1224/MTPAV, UAD 2 card, Kontakt 3/B4 II, CAD VX2 tube mic, 2 Avalon 737SP, Tascam M2516 8 buss recording mixer, Lexicon PCM91, Eastman 910, Eastman El Rey2 Fender Blues Deluxe, Handbuilt 30 watt Fender Princeton kit w/Weber Cermic 12", 64 Jazz bass I got new. and a 30hp orange diesel tractor!! 4wd 2 speed axel, named kioti.
- Anders Peev
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- Shooshie
- Posts: 19820
- Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:01 pm
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Go to Versiontracker.com and look for DashOff.guitron45 wrote:What utility will turn off dashboard. Is it part of the os or a DL app?XYZ wrote:d. There is a little utility that will turn it on and off for you.
Thanks
Ron
Shooshie
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
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No app., just real good info that I found almost eliminated all my spikes and pops.guitron45 wrote:Thank you for the link but I don't see anything about dashboard in the seven pages that this link leads to. Naturally I did not want to read seven pages of material. But I scanned every page and saw nothing about Dashboard or any link to DL an app. Could you please be more specific? What is the name of the app.
Ron
Hope it works for you.
D
iMac 2.7Ghz quadcore i5 16 gig RAM DP 7.24 OS 10.6.8, iMac G5 2.1GHz 2.5 gig Ram DP 5.13 OS 10.4.11 MOTU 828 MK2, East West Platinum Plus, Miroslav Philharmonic, Komplete 5, Kontakt 2 Garritan Big Band, Mr Sax T, The Trumpet, DrumCore, Trilogy and Trillian, Ivory, MachFive, Ethno Instrument, Reason 4, SampleTank 2 Sampletron, Samplemoog, Melodyne Editor, Nomad plugins, Vintage Warmer, Ozone 4, Amplitube Jimi, Xgear and AmpegSVX.
http:www.davidosuna.com
http:www.davidosuna.com