Using Adjust Beats

[Shooshie]

I'm in the process of uploading a fixed version (it's 8:33 a.m. Central Time; if you don't see the movie right away, come back in a bit. It's still uploading). I'm still learning about making demos with Quicktime. I've made entire movies out of still pictures, so I thought it was ok to add one to a movie. Apparently it's not as simple as pasting it in. I just deleted the picture, which was the UnicorNation logo. I'd added it in case this movie got copied to another website.

BTW, I've got new software for making this stuff, which I can't wait to try. I think my next one should look and sound better. I may remake this one and cut it in about half the time. I find this one to have long stretches where it's not clear what's happening. If I can tighten that up, it will be much more effective. Like I said, it's a learning process.

Shoosh

[monkey man]

... Hey, Shooshie, you're one of the kindest fellows I know. Thanks for doing this, man!!

Fernando, he's one of the kindest individuals I've ever encountered.
His generosity is matched only by his intellect.

It's always great to see how other users use the same tools, each with his own personal techniques and touches.

Hear, hear.
This sort of thing is especially valuable to folks like me (and I may be one of very few) who've never even seen a DAW being operated by another, let alone DP.

If the entire manual, or at least the functions described herein, were to be presented this way, I'd surely benefit hugely.
Chrispick entertained the idea of making a DP video manual last year.
One gets the feeling that the first truly useful movie manual could well emanate from this place.
That would make sense, given the function of UnicorNation and the passion hidden therein.

I'm talking this way largely because I bought what was supposed to be the best movie manual for DP yet, and was hugely disappointed.

Shooshie, I managed to get 15MB of it through the night, but when I resumed it started over! Doh!
Could this be because there's a new file up?
As long as it resumes OK (I won't clear the cache), I should be able to watch this new-fangled madness by the end of the week.
Yay!

Please tell me it's just that there's a new file up...

[Shooshie]

There IS a new file up. I hope that's all it is. If you really want to see it, and you don't think you'll be terribly disappointed, I could always burn you a copy and send it to you on CD. If I make more of these, it might be best if I do that for you since you are on dialup.

Shooshie

(thanks for the kind words. I'll slip you that $10 I promised later when nobody's looking. )

[Tonio]

PC?? I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole It did play , but quits about when you mark the 2nd downbeat. Otherwise I really liked the presentation. Nice and clean, and actually can hear your voice over. Most vids are terrible in that regard. The content was presented great too, nice and precise. At least for what I was able to see/hear. Hey maybe yoiu can get commission from MOTU?
T

Shooshie,
I just downloaded it and got a error !!
picture 1.png not found,
then error -128?

Funny thing is it played fine the first time for about a few minutes, the next time it just wouldn't open??


T

Did you try to open it on a PC? It's compressed with H.24, which I think is a Mac-only codec.

[monkey man]

Tonio, I think MOTU owes Shooshie very much.
He'd say that DP has paid him back in kind though.
You'd think MOTU would be very grateful for his flying the flag all these years.
Money can't buy the sort of loyalty he's shown to DP and MOTU.

OK, if your head hasn't already exploded thanks to my pumping it up Shoosh, thank you for your kind offer.
We'll see how it goes. From what you've said, it does sound like it's just that it's a new file.
I seem to recall Safari's saying that the "file doesn't exist", so it all makes perfect sense.
Four blocks of around 15MB and I'm there. I can't wait, and I'll certainly gratefully download any others you post.

Downloading (keenly)....

[Tonio]

Tonio, I think MOTU owes Shooshie very much.
He'd say that DP has paid him back in kind though.
You'd think MOTU would be very grateful for his flying the flag all these years.
Money can't buy the sort of loyalty he's shown to DP and MOTU.

.

For sure MM!! Shooshie even got the L word I almost did, but figured I don't need to have support for a client in that way. But that topic is outta hea

T

[toodamnhip]

I watched a few minutes, it was nice to have a voice to match you after all these yrs bro.

Thanks..

One small idea, have the click audible in the demo. After 5 minutes, I was dying to hear how the click sounded up against the performance..I didnt watch to the end..maybe you turned it on at the end, but I wanted it earlier to hear the results of your edits, especially as regards using musical judgement.

I just did a project for Faith Hill with my buddy David Campbell and I was doing all you did in your vid with a live orchestra..

But in the 5 minutes I watched, I learned a thing or two..I will have to watch the rest later.

I do have one question though.

Sometimes i think it might be better to get a VERy rough start with the conductor , just to get your first beat into the ball park and a very rough tempo..then, instead of all the painstaking work, why not just PERFORM a click track on a synth that feels very nice, then, after, convert that performance to a DP tempo map. Isnt that better?

Or, why didn;t you do a tap tempo to get you close and then refine after a tap tempo so that you weren't so far from the performance when adjusting beats?

By the time I finished Faith Hill's record, I had decided that it might have been better to just perform a damn click than use all that conductor track technique...

Thoughts?...
David

[Shooshie]

Sometimes i think it might be better to get a VERy rough start with the conductor , just to get your first beat into the ball park and a very rough tempo..then, instead of all the painstaking work, why not just PERFORM a click track on a synth that feels very nice, then, after, convert that performance to a DP tempo map. Isnt that better?

Or, why didn;t you do a tap tempo to get you close and then refine after a tap tempo so that you weren't so far from the performance when adjusting beats?

I didn't do a Record Beats (remember, it's not Tap Tempo until you've got a beat map!) because this was an Adjust Beats demo. I'll do a Record Beats demo another time. I see people getting very confused about Tap Tempo, Record Beats, and Adjust Beats. Each have their place, and they can all work together, but we need to differentiate between them. I'll probably redo this demo and make is shorter and tighter. I'm just learning how to put this stuff on video.

Doing it this way, you start with full measures, then you go back and do the individual beats. The most important thing in that video is learning to watch your conductor track while you work. I don't think I emphasized it enough, and I introduced it too late. You probably didn't see that at all. If you didn't come away with an understanding of the relationship between the conductor track and the beats/barlines, then I failed in my objective.

Shooshie

[toodamnhip]

Sometimes i think it might be better to get a VERy rough start with the conductor , just to get your first beat into the ball park and a very rough tempo..then, instead of all the painstaking work, why not just PERFORM a click track on a synth that feels very nice, then, after, convert that performance to a DP tempo map. Isnt that better?

Or, why didn;t you do a tap tempo to get you close and then refine after a tap tempo so that you weren't so far from the performance when adjusting beats?

I didn't do a Record Beats (remember, it's not Tap Tempo until you've got a beat map!) because this was an Adjust Beats demo. I'll do a Record Beats demo another time. I see people getting very confused about Tap Tempo, Record Beats, and Adjust Beats. Each have their place, and they can all work together, but we need to differentiate between them. I'll probably redo this demo and make is shorter and tighter. I'm just learning how to put this stuff on video.

Doing it this way, you start with full measures, then you go back and do the individual beats. The most important thing in that video is learning to watch your conductor track while you work. I don't think I emphasized it enough, and I introduced it too late. You probably didn't see that at all. If you didn't come away with an understanding of the relationship between the conductor track and the beats/barlines, then I failed in my objective.

Shooshie

Well..

without hearing a click AFTER seeing an adjustment in the conductor track, it is hard to know what the moves you are doing really mean. I see the extreme temp changes even out..but without hearing how this influences the click, it is just graphics...

My question to you STILL applies, I am asking your thoughts on general approach, it is indeed great you are doing soecific vids on techniques but again, what do you think about just performing a click track, editing that MIDI for feel, and then having DP read the tempo from the performed click into it's conductor track?

Seems easier and more human, more hands on. I haven;t tried it yet but am I correct in my assumprtion that DP can read a performed MIDI click track and ascertain a tempo map from that?

It seems much easier as a general approach, just click along, then nudge the MIDI for feel here and there, read the tempo into DP's conductor track and voila!

Of course it is fantastic to also be able to do all the various adjust beats techniques..but what about the ease of this idea of mine?
Thoughts?

[OldTimey]

Do you ever do any voice over work. If not, you should put together a reel. I think you'd be really good at it.

Agreed! I've read so many of Shooshie's posts over the years...it's nice to now be able put a voice to all that text! Great video!

[Shooshie]

Sometimes i think it might be better to get a VERy rough start with the conductor , just to get your first beat into the ball park and a very rough tempo..then, instead of all the painstaking work, why not just PERFORM a click track on a synth that feels very nice, then, after, convert that performance to a DP tempo map. Isnt that better?

Or, why didn;t you do a tap tempo to get you close and then refine after a tap tempo so that you weren't so far from the performance when adjusting beats?

I didn't do a Record Beats (remember, it's not Tap Tempo until you've got a beat map!) because this was an Adjust Beats demo. I'll do a Record Beats demo another time. I see people getting very confused about Tap Tempo, Record Beats, and Adjust Beats. Each have their place, and they can all work together, but we need to differentiate between them. I'll probably redo this demo and make is shorter and tighter. I'm just learning how to put this stuff on video.

Doing it this way, you start with full measures, then you go back and do the individual beats. The most important thing in that video is learning to watch your conductor track while you work. I don't think I emphasized it enough, and I introduced it too late. You probably didn't see that at all. If you didn't come away with an understanding of the relationship between the conductor track and the beats/barlines, then I failed in my objective.

Shooshie

Well..

without hearing a click AFTER seeing an adjustment in the conductor track, it is hard to know what the moves you are doing really mean. I see the extreme temp changes even out..but without hearing how this influences the click, it is just graphics...

My question to you STILL applies, I am asking your thoughts on general approach, it is indeed great you are doing soecific vids on techniques but again, what do you think about just performing a click track, editing that MIDI for feel, and then having DP read the tempo from the performed click into it's conductor track?

Seems easier and more human, more hands on. I haven;t tried it yet but am I correct in my assumprtion that DP can read a performed MIDI click track and ascertain a tempo map from that?

It seems much easier as a general approach, just click along, then nudge the MIDI for feel here and there, read the tempo into DP's conductor track and voila!

Of course it is fantastic to also be able to do all the various adjust beats techniques..but what about the ease of this idea of mine?
Thoughts?

Toodamn, you're makin' me laugh! Let me say it again: Adjust Beats isn't about Tap Tempo. It's not about clicks; it's about lining up the barlines so that the arrangement can adopt the feel of the original.

Wait... maybe I see what you're saying. You want to hear how the click track sounds once it's been lined up to the music. Ok, I get it. Sorry... My head was still wrapped around MY objective. What you want would be a demonstration of the click, after it's been lined up. That's a valid question after all, and I apologize for laughin' atcha, but it's still kinda funny, because really the click is just going to be in time with the original song, that's all. Still, it might be a way of bringing people's minds into what I'm doing.

Ok. I'll try that. I'll remake that video tomorrow and incorporate a click. I've also got some new software to try out that shows what keys I'm using. I think you'll like it. Hey, man... it's a journey.

Shooshie

[monkey man]

... I'll remake that video tomorrow and incorporate a click.
Shooshie

Doh!

Still downloading in the hope of catching something before it's replaced again...

[ze3b]

That was an excellent tutorial and right on time for me. I have an early performance that is (so far) just rhythm section with many overdubs to come. It is all over the map tempo-wise so I used Record beats to put it in on my keyboard and then followed your instruction on adjust beats. I adjusted both beats and measures and it is starting to look pretty good. I have one Question tho. Is there any way to lock down say the first beat marker in the conductor track? My project that I am applying this to is all audio but I will be adding MIDI tracks like drums later. Getting this done with Record beats was essential since I wanted to preserve the real time performance. Sure appreciate any tips I could get here.

[FMiguelez]

.

Shooshie is right in that a lot of us confuse Record Beats, Tap Tempo and Adjust Beats.

TooDamnHip, IF I understand correctly what you want to do, I think I know what you want. If I missed your point just ignore me.

I've had to do something similar when working with QT videos. The reasons are different, but I think you're looking for the same solution.

Yes, using record beats is a great place to start, but you can also record those tempo taps in an actual MIDI track. They will be as good as your performance. After you're sure your recorded MIDI notes are exactly where you want them, all you have left to do is to line up your performance to bars and beats. The adjust beats command, along with snap to MIDI checkbox will do that for you. It will make the conductor track accelerate or whatever it needs to do to match your performance. If you tap quarter notes, that's ok, but you might find that tapping eight notes gives you more resolution.
So just tapping (recording) the MIDI info is very very fast, and it'll be as close to the performance you're trying to match as you taps were performed.

For this particular thing you're trying to do I'd probably go more for the record beats, but either way should work fine.

FWIW, the reason I'm forced to record the "click" on an actual MIDI track, is because I like (for certain types of music) a very free and flowing tempo. But I found that if you use record beats command for this, then the QT movie will follow your rubatos, so it's impossible to do it against video this way. I found that if I just tap with my left hand the basic pulse, while playing a melody with the right hand, then the QT will be continuous, and then I just have to use the Adjust beats command to line up my bars/beats to whatever I tapped. This way, I have a rubato feel, and my "guide" melody to be improved on latter on, but the feel will be there.

Sorry if I missed your point. Hopefully this will help a little...

[toodamnhip]

.

Shooshie is right in that a lot of us confuse Record Beats, Tap Tempo and Adjust Beats.

TooDamnHip, IF I understand correctly what you want to do, I think I know what you want. If I missed your point just ignore me.

I've had to do something similar when working with QT videos. The reasons are different, but I think you're looking for the same solution.

Yes, using record beats is a great place to start, but you can also record those tempo taps in an actual MIDI track. They will be as good as your performance. After you're sure your recorded MIDI notes are exactly where you want them, all you have left to do is to line up your performance to bars and beats. The adjust beats command, along with snap to MIDI checkbox will do that for you. It will make the conductor track accelerate or whatever it needs to do to match your performance. If you tap quarter notes, that's ok, but you might find that tapping eight notes gives you more resolution.
So just tapping (recording) the MIDI info is very very fast, and it'll be as close to the performance you're trying to match as you taps were performed.

For this particular thing you're trying to do I'd probably go more for the record beats, but either way should work fine.

FWIW, the reason I'm forced to record the "click" on an actual MIDI track, is because I like (for certain types of music) a very free and flowing tempo. But I found that if you use record beats command for this, then the QT movie will follow your rubatos, so it's impossible to do it against video this way. I found that if I just tap with my left hand the basic pulse, while playing a melody with the right hand, then the QT will be continuous, and then I just have to use the Adjust beats command to line up my bars/beats to whatever I tapped. This way, I have a rubato feel, and my "guide" melody to be improved on latter on, but the feel will be there.

Sorry if I missed your point. Hopefully this will help a little...

Yes, but is there a way to let DP automatically read the tempo from the MIDI clicks I;ve performed?