22/8 time?

[aranos]

Ivo Papasov said "when we started this band we wanted to play weddings because we got to play 10 or 11 hours at a time." So they seem to improvise these long 10 -15 minutes solos. No wonder they look cool and relaxed!

Why write something with a 17 in a denominator? Purpose of time signatures and writing music on paper is to make composers intentions as clear as simply as possible is it not? It still might need some extra instructions, verbal or written. For example lots of Bulgarian music (as in the clip) is in 7/8 and 11/16. It is so fast that it is not possible to count it and it is divided into 2/8+2/8+3/8 (for 7/8) its impossible to pronounce all the numbers so you go:ta-ka,ta-ka,ta-ka-ta. To get the basic of it. Some Greek 7/8 would be 3/8,2/8,2/8. 11/16 would go: 2/8,2/8,3/8,2/8,2/8.
Of course there are longer frases over this pulse, but if you were to write looooong bars (as in the funny Beethoven suggestion) it would be impossible to read.
On top of it the beats are not necessarily equal length, eg waltz in Vienna has the first beat slightly longer. Irish jig in 6/8 1st and 4th beats are slightly longer. Let's not go to jigs in 12/8 and 9/8.
So I think if composer writes something in 22/8 there is a good reason for it, why would he/she want to antagonize performers?
sorry for long ramble.
aranos

[Spikey Horse]

Love this clip - Ivo Papasov & His Wedding Band - thanks for posting it aranos ...... 3 straight plays in a row just to drink it all in yum!

[aranos]

Remember "Elvis is alive and working in a local Burger Joint"?
Well, John Coltrane is alive and well and playing at weddings in Bulgaria.

[philbrown]

Love this clip - Ivo Papasov & His Wedding Band - thanks for posting it aranos ...... 3 straight plays in a row just to drink it all in yum!

Yeah me too, it totally got under my skin.
Wedding band...
so people dance to that stuff??
There a lot of busy chiropractors in Bulgaria then, yes-no?


Seriously I'm going to look into this music more. I think the fact I totally don't understand it makes me kinda obsessed with it.

[Frodo]

What they edited out of the beginning was the part when they announced, "we're going to take it down a little bit"!!

[Mark Gasbarro]

I've been reading this board for a few years now and find it generally to be helpful, entrtaining, a pretty good first-resort for troubleshooting, etc. I haven't posted anything mostly because if someone asks a question to which I know the answer, someone else has already posted an answer. If I have a question or a problem, someone else has usually already had the same problem and somebody else will have already posted an answer or suggestion which, even if not precisely pointed at whatever issue I'm having, will have put me on the path to the solution.
So all of this by way of apology if my contribution here skews too far afield.
On the subject of pieces in 22/8:
There is a really fun tune by Dave Brubeck which, while not in 22/8, is in 11/4 so taken at the 8th note instead of the quarter, it is KIND of 22/8. It's called "Eleven Four".
Also, check out Milcho Leviev's tune called Bulgarian Boogie. It's is also not in 22/8, but it is, I think, in alternating bars of 17 and 18. (Somebody striaghten me out on that if I'm wrong.)
The Don Ellis big band is another place to go to hear really interesting pieces in various time signatures.
And as others in this thread have indicated, parsing the folk music of Eastern European countries and eastward from there will yield all sorts of interesting time signature results.
A potentially interesting side-note regarding the score to 2001-
The score we hear in the film is essentailly Stanley Kubrick's temp score. He hired Alex North to compose a score for the film, which he did. Kubrick never used the score, however. Here's the story in North's own words:
http://www.visual-memory.co.uk/amk/doc/0080.html
There is an excellent recording of all the music he wrote for the film, released by Varese Sarabande in 1993, conducted by Jerry Goldsmith.

[Frodo]

Welcome, Mark!

Thanks for the link--

A bit OT, but I'm always fascinated to find another DP user in my area. Funny to think we may have stood in line at Best Buy or the post office or even at that new little Mac store near Magic Mountain without knowing it.

Glad you found reason to post at last.

Don't be a stranger!

[ramadev]

I was fortunate enough to meet Milcho Leviev and Don Ellis at a jazz clinic taught by Mr. Ellis and his band in 1972 (studying improvisation with trombonist Glenn Ferris and guitarist Jay Graydon - wow!). In our trumpet sectional rehearsals we read through Milcho's piece "Bulgarian Bulge" which alternated bars of 33/32 and 36/32. My fave odd meter at the clinic however was from a piece in 13/16, subdivided 3-3-2-2-3. This is really fun to play on my drum kit. (I think the track was called "Chain Reaction" by Hank Levy on the "Connection" LP.)

[Mark Gasbarro]

Ramadev-
Many thanks for the correction on the time siganature of Bulgarian Boogie.
I've never seen a printed copy of the piece, I was just going off of what it sounded like to me.
I agree this stuff is enormous fun to play especially once it gets comfortable enough to really swing. I'll check out the Hank Levy thing assuming I can find it somewhere.

[ramadev]

I agree this stuff is enormous fun to play especially once it gets comfortable enough to really swing.

The 13/8 really rocks, especially at a faster tempo. I count it as a swing beat; either a 4 with the 3rd beat stretched, or as a 5 with a punchy 3 & 4.

I'll check out the Hank Levy thing assuming I can find it somewhere.

It's from the Don Ellis LP called "Connection" which came out about the same time as the film he scored, "The French Connection" in 1972 I believe. They were rehearsing for the recording sessions for the LP at the jazz clinic I attended (and let us watch the rehearsals); they went into the studio the following week. This was in July '72. Teo Macero (producer for Miles Davis) produced the album. Hank Levy was one of many writers for Don's LPs. Here's a link:

http://www.donellismusic.com/Ellis_Reco ... ction.html

Chain Reaction (if I correctly remember which track it is) starts and finishes slow, but the middle section is up tempo with a piano solo by Milcho Leviev that's pretty far out. That's the part I really like.

[dspollen]

Just came across this post- made me think of Pat Metheny Group's "The First Circle". Don't know if anyone has mentioned that already. It's 22/8 or a two bar pattern of 11/8.

www.danspollen.com
www.myspace.com/danspollen
www.youtube.com/dspollen

[Frodo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xm0JYojAks

[philbrown]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xm0JYojAks

Yeah! Thanks for posting Frodo - thanks dspollen
That clip kills IMO
Great stuff!
And the Oberheim Lyle is playing - yum.
OB is re-releasing those modules as we speak
sorry - just a modular guy ramblin'
those SEM's (Synthesizer Expander Modules) are an awesome piece of kit.
Man I'm glad I saw this thread/post
an oldie but a goodie

[dspollen]

Hey philbrown- regarding your profile picture- I did a drawing similar to it:

http://www.danspollen.com/Miles.htm

[philbrown]

That's beautiful!!!!!!!!
Miles is one of my all-time heroes, human that he was