$3K budget for orchestral samples - any recommendations?

[SeikoT123]

My friend has asked me to score a short film - just the excuse I need to finally beef up my mini home studio with a set of fine orchestral samples! Assuming a budget of $3K, what would be the best to get? I have to make a rather quick choice. I am a relative beginner at this, so ease of use will be a factor.

I use DP 4.52, G5 2.7Ghz, 4GB RAM. Other components are an A-90EX keyboard controller, a Roland 2080, a MTPAV, a Motu 2408, Reason 3.0 and a 14 channel Mackie mixer. I presently have no sampler (other than the sampler built into Reason).

I heard the EWGL Symphonic Orchestra Platinum Edition online, and it sounded good and would be within budget at $1,495. With the Native Instruments "Virtual Instrument" interface, it seems I wouldn't need to invest in a separate soft sampler.

Should I just keep this simple and go with that? Perhaps even supplement it with the Garritan Personal Orchestra for less than $300? Or should I be looking at something else altogether?

Finally, should I be thinking instead of getting a separate computer to run, say, Gigastudio, or would that just be courting disaster considering my greenhorn status? (I could probably lobby with my better half for a slightly increased budget - say perhaps up to $4K.

Thanks in advance for your advice!

[Siryne]

I think I would be looking at the things from the Vienna Symphonic Library. I believe the Opus line is the lesser expensive and you could get a couple of the collections in your price range. They are some of the best I have heard. I believe they run from there own version of NI.

Peace!

[westla]

I say go with East West Quantum Leap SO.

[tsd3000]

East West Quantum Leap... and get a separate harddrive for it.

With a dual 2.7 G5 you shouldnt need to run a seperate computer for what your talking about, just start using it and if you find you need more ram or to spread the samples over more hard drives, add them... it all depends on how intensive your work is.

if you plan to start doing this professionally, then the advantage to multi computers is work flow... IE you can load different sessions on your main computer, without having to load all the samples...

remember that this type of work is more taxing on ram and harddrive transfer than CPU. EWQL can stream from disc or be stored in ram, so if your drive start to peak out, incease the ram buffer-or the other way around etc.

also since you have reason, you may as well get the reason strings as well, cause they are great when you want to bang somthing out quick. well worth the $$$

have fun mate, im sure you will, new toys are great huh...

<small>[ June 25, 2005, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: Trent ]</small>

[wonder]

for 3k...do live strings

[richard]

Originally posted by wonder:
for 3k...do live strings

I think Wonder might have a good point. It depends on how you plan to move forward with film scoring, but for the time it takes an average composer to learn a new sample library/sample playback plugins, it's pretty likely that $3k will give you a better sounding score if invested in live musicians. I might consider going with GPO (which has a good collection of instruments), and then going with live musicians for the bulk of the score.

If you're not in a situation where live musicians are very feasible due to needing to be able to orchestrate well/quickly, having musicians available, having a good environment to record in, etc., then I've found a mix of GPO, EW Gold, and Hallion String Edition to be a pretty good mix of sounds that should cover a wide spectrum of orchestral tibres. I had to do some tweeking to it, but the Piano that comes with Mach 5 is really nice for film scoring (some very nice pianissimo-type samples).

Either way, I wouldn't buy another computer yet if your budget is only $3k. Perhaps a Powercore (which I've been told has a better Reverb) or a UAD Project Pac (I use the Reverb on it and I like it better than the reverbs that come with DP) can help with CPU load if you are running into power limitations. I'm not sure how much more RAM might help because I've been told that some applications do not utilize RAM past a certain point. I only have about 2.5 gigs and I find that I can't run a full orchestra in realtime without having to freeze some tracks.

HTH,

Richard

[Hiddenstory]

East West Platinum has group sales . I bought Platinum for1200.00. East west Platinum to me are the best.
Platinum lists for 2999.00
http://www.soundsonline.com/sophtml/details.phtml?sku=EW-155G

[wonder]

do live strings!

for all the posts saying "NO sampled sound like the real thing" we should practice our preaching. If i had a 3k budget for strings...i'd do live strings and not even THINK about anything else.

I MIGHT save some money and just do one pass of the live and double some of the passes with samples....BUT, i would DEF do live if i had the $$$

[chrispick]

I don't quite agree with the "do it live" contingency here. There are many variables to consider.

Sure, in most cases, live, pro musicians sounds better than samples, no question, but....

What of revisions and re-edits which will undoubtably occur? Will you be able to re-rent studio time and re-hire the musicians? What will that leave you with in the end? Bear in mind: Cues shift and change many times during the editorial process -- and as little as a second's shift can kill you.

It's a short film, right? So, the director's likely to experience some learning hurdles along the way. That is impact you, definitely and without question. Eyes open going in, ya dig?

And what about temping the tracks at a quality level that will suit the filmmaker's confidence? The director and editor will want scratch tracks as soon as you can produce them, and the "believe me, it'll sound 100% better when finished" tact doesn't wash real well (these guys will have crossed their fingers and been burned enough already in production).

And what are you left with in the end as far as tool-sets go? A great piece of music is a big reward in itself, sure. But, where does that leave you for the next job?

More importantly, does the film's score need a full orchestral treatment? Does it even need real-world sounding instrumentation? What if the story demands something more akin to sound design scoring? Or electronica? Or hell, a pencilina solo?

Anyway, to answer your question directly:

The best sounding sample library is the Vienna Symphony Library , without question. Look into their Opus collection, as another poster suggested. It's a nice all-in-one package. Use VSL with Altiverb and you'll have a sweet, live-sounding set-up.

To note: Many folk run VSL via Gigasampler on a PC, then pipe that into DP on their Mac for mixing. A good way to do it, if you can swing it.

For temping the track, I'd recommend Big Fish Audio's Orchestral Collection. Who knows? It might be all you need anyway. Run OC via MachFive or another sampler for best flexibility. It'll give you decent sounds, enough to prevent director freak-out. And it's very light on CPU load.

Something to chew on.

To consider: It might work for you to score using a samples for the majority of sound, then dub live instruments (say, a solo violin or solo ttrumpet or sax) when a high level of authenticity is demanded.

In any case, let us know what you come up with.

<small>[ June 26, 2005, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: heavypick ]</small>

[westla]

Gotta agree with you on most counts. While I track live musicians for all my films, I think it would be better for someone starting out to invest in a sample library. What happens next time he does a film, eventually he'll have to buy a sample library.

As for ....

Originally posted by heavypick:
The best sounding sample library is the Vienna Symphony Library , without question. .

Kinda a bold statement, and I gotta disagree. I have both VSL and EWQLSO. I do like the VSL woodwind better, but I think the string are better in EWQLSO, and I find the brass terrible (almost unusable) in VSL.

So I guess everyone has a different take on what sounds good in an orchestral library.

[croyal]

Originally posted by wonder:
for 3k...do live strings

Absolutely!!!

The deal is that scenes are often worked using synths/samples and then when cues are fairly set you get to the scoring stage. The edits that may follow are involving the tracked orchestra. More than possible to edit without having to re-track.

Just use your current setup for daily work or get an inexpensive library to work with before the final tracking sessions. Your offer to work on a film is also an opportunity to crack open that score of Electra or Barber Adagio. You can program the nuances in an hour or have the players do it live in 2 minutes.

Added bonus- if done in a decent facility, you get to work with pro engineers using good equipment- which in total is often worth more that the cost of the sessions anyway.

Chris

[wonder]

do it right....do it once.

LIVE.

you could even do it and have the money left over to purchase a sample library.

[chrispick]

Originally posted by westla:
Kinda a bold statement, and I gotta disagree. I have both VSL and EWQLSO. I do like the VSL woodwind better, but I think the string are better in EWQLSO, and I find the brass terrible (almost unusable) in VSL. So I guess everyone has a different take on what sounds good in an orchestral library.

Fair enough, yeah.

Maybe it's more helpful to say that VSL and EWQLSO offer some quality sounds, so check them out. Both are used by scoring pros. Listen, then decide.

As for the notion of recording live instruments once on a low-budget gig, I submit this story:

"A musician I met told me about a film he's scored, at least in part. For a particular scene, he carefully placed musicals hits to match the movements of the actors (a kind of balletic vibe, if you will). Upon screening the film, he saw that his meticulously-placed hit points now landed nowhere near where he'd intended, and instead made the scene feel strange and awkward and opposite of all his intentions. When he asked the director what happened, he received a sort of "Eh, things had to change, dude" kind of shrug reply."

So. I'm just saying.

[wonder]

yeah,good point. but live strings will sound 109% better than sampled strings.

[amplidood]

How long is the film? $3000 will most likely not cover even one session (3 hours) considering players/studio/engineer/copyist etc.