Tube Mic, or Tube Pre?

OldTimey · Post by **OldTimey** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:15 pm

Hello recording aficionados, I've decided I'm not 100% satisfied (who ever is really) with my vocal chain. I normally sing through a BLUE Blueberry LDC, which is a great mic, very open, smooth and airy sounding. Works fantastic on female vocals, male tenors, shaker, and clean guitar cabs. On my voice (i'm a baritone with delusions of grandeur) The Blueberry sounds OK, but it's not quite "there" if you know what I mean. The last time i was really happy with my vocal sound was back in college, we had an old Ampex MX10 mixer tube mixer that I used as a preamp with the Blueberry, and it sounded quite nice. So I am thinking about getting a tube pre to try and capture some of that magic.

or

should i get a tube mic instead? My dream mic is the BLUE bottle but can't afford that right now...or a 251 recreation...or a U47 recreation....

I guess my question is: is the Blueberry, if paired with the right tube preamp (and which one???) up to the task? Or do I need to start over with spanking new tube mic?

thanks for the advice!

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:04 pm

The Blueberry is a GREAT microphone that is open and airy sounding. While combining it with a nice tube pre, you'll get some wonderful sounds out of it. BUT....... the sound starts at the capsule and while it's a good mic, it's not one I recommend for male vocals. Let me ask...what are you using for pres and WHAT IS your budget?

OldTimey · Post by **OldTimey** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:22 pm

ahh the budget. It depends really. I don't have to get the whole chain at one time, but I'd like to start building it with a quality purchase. Obviously I'd love to start with something that will get me halfway there with what i have now, but something like a Bottle mic or a Telefunken or a c800 wouldn't make too much sense given the other holes that need filling (i've spent a good deal of money this past year upgrading my software, monitoring, room treatment, and D/A, but I still need better A/D, pres, and few more mics to round out the locker) The Blueberry is my highest quality LDC at the moment. For preamps I have the stock 828mkII (honky honky honky), a FMR Really Nice Preamp (wonderful little box with gobs of headroom, good fidelity) and some other crazy stuff like an old Altec mixer and a cannibalized Ampex reel to reel.

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:08 pm

There's no such thing as a quality purchase one at a time, you MUST look at the FINAL RESULT of where you want to be. The biggest issue I run into time and time again is wanting the best one can buy right now instead of thinking of it as in stages. Buying the best mic without factoring in an appropriate pre to go with it will bite you in the end. For example, one of my co-workers literally just stopped at my desk asking me some advice for one of his clients.... he wants to buy an M149 microphone and a Solo610 pre. Now these are both dang fine products, but it's like buying a $90k sports car and putting in standard fuel, or the revers of buying a basic car and putting in expensive, high performance fuel. In this case, I really feel he would be better off with a BLUE Cactus and a Focusrite ISA430mkII as those product compliment each other, both offer amazing results and the end audio result is PRO all the way. So knowing your rough budget IS important

I like the Blueberry, I like it a lot---but even changing out the pre it may not be what you're after. BUT the point I'm getting to here is if you change your mic and you don't change your pre, buying that nice mic won't take you as far as you think it will. I always start with the mic, but you can't forget about the pre. PERHAPS one of my personal favorites, the Mojave MA200, will do the job for you. I've had many clients in this same situation and it has.....so I don't know. BUT even then, you also need to look at the pre IF you want to get the full advantage out of that gear.

IMHO, an MA200 with a Focusrite ISA220 is about the best bang for the buck value out there.... $2500 buys you what mics for well over that can't do on their own. See my point?

OldTimey · Post by **OldTimey** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:41 pm

i guess what i'm saying is that if I buy a pre for a new mic, i'd like something that complements my other microphones as well.

The MA200 definitely piques my interest. Can't say the 220 pre makes me all that excited though...they seem to lose value pretty heavily on Ebay.

chrispick · Post by **chrispick** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:41 pm

This is what I'm getting as soon as a few checks pass:

http://www.pearlmanmicrophones.com/tm1.html

Gets some great reviews. There's also its lower-priced, less specific-use cousin:

http://www.pearlmanmicrophones.com/tm2.html

I do think you'll want to upgrade your pre though. Here's a well-reviewed, not-so-expensive channel strip option:

http://www.chameleonlabs.com/product1.htm

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:23 am

Just because you see an item on Ebay doesn't mean its not well liked. Remember, the more you see used items--chances are the more of them that have been bought

With that said, I'm not telling you that's the solution--but it is one I've recommended countless times with high praise. Of course if you were to go along the lines of an MA200, a Neve clone or that type of solid-state sound makes a perfect mix with a good lush, warm tube microphone sound. My point simply is look at a combination of products, I think you know what I mean.

Do you have access to some good outboard tube pres? It's possible you might just love the sound of your Blueberry on male voice through a really good pre. Check out a Universal Audio LA610 ---that's a good mix with that mic and a pretty amazing value for the money.

Tritonemusic · Post by **Tritonemusic** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:43 pm

BradLyons wrote:Remember, the more you see used items--chances are the more of them that have been bought

Like Behringer?

daniel.sneed · Post by **daniel.sneed** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:47 pm

Chrispick, the Pearlman looks very much like this :
http://www.thomann.de/fr/the_tbone_sct2000.htm

I've got one and am very pleased with it, specially on vocals.
It's got 9 directivities selectable on power supply box. I prefer omni when it comes to voice.
Have just changed the original cheap tube for a better one.

OldTimey · Post by **OldTimey** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:50 pm

Thanks for the advice! I think a Neve-like pre is what I will spring for...either a two channel great river if i can get a good price on the used market or the single channel one new/used. I will also pick up a Shure SM7 because I've always wanted one, and think it will make a nice addition to my mic collection. The MA-200, I'd have to try it before taking the plunge. As far as tube mics go, i have the most experience with a Lawson 251 clone. Loved the sound of that one. I used it to record a jazz pianist/vocalist...and it sounded great, even though the only pre we had available to us were the stock Digi 002r pres. A mic like that can just elevate the rest of the signal chain.

One thing that rubbed me weird about the MA-200 is that it's capsule is "hand-selected." What does that mean? It can't mean the same thing as "hand-crafted." Is this the biggest corner they cut? Machine crafted capsules?

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:15 pm

it means every one is listened to

SixStringGeek · Post by **SixStringGeek** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:42 pm

666 wrote:
BradLyons wrote:Remember, the more you see used items--chances are the more of them that have been bought
Like Behringer?

You have chosen your handle wisely.

chrispick · Post by **chrispick** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:51 pm

OldTimey wrote:Thanks for the advice! I think a Neve-like pre is what I will spring for...

The Chamelion Labs one I cited is said to be Neve-like.

Have you checked out Brent Averill stuff?

http://www.brentaverill.com/products/in ... ?itemnum=1

Less expensive than a Neve from Neve, but said to sound very similar (some say identical).

Throwing it out there.

OldTimey · Post by **OldTimey** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:18 pm

chrispick wrote: The Chamelion Labs one I cited is said to be Neve-like.

I'm definitely interested in checking this one out. I just take my time with this stuff, browse the used market for a while before deciding to buy new. I also think I got ahead of myself...as in I'd better wait for the holidays to be over to see exactly where I stand! But I'm thinking a "character" solid state preamp is what I need to get next. The RNP is pretty clean, and very dynamic sounding, but lacks a certain "something" I've been able to get out of pres in other studios. That said, it is a huge improvement over the stock 828mk2 pres. It's not ideal for use with sources that need a lot of gain though because it can get noisy at higher settings.

After the pre I'll look into a tube mic...then a tube preamp...then a nice sdc matched pair...then better A/D. ahh man it never ends...

daniel.sneed · Post by **daniel.sneed** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:39 pm

TC Electronic "Gold Channel" is a very quiet, dynamic, and sort of "uncolored" preamp.
Includes all sorts of tools also : eq, comp, gate, de-esser, saturator, etc... premium quality everywhere inside.
100 useless presets, but 100 very handy user presets.
Much succes here with Beyer ribbon mics.