Mastering compressor questions!

kenoflife · Post by **kenoflife** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:58 pm

Newbie in over his head question....

I'm finishing up our first CD for our band - been using Vintage Warmer, Reverence for reverb, and Ozone for mastering....

Seems it can use a last layer of compression - according to my friend the engineer who just says a word or two here or there.

I tried using VW before Ozone on the master fader (after the tracks had been bounced in 24-bit and opened up as 2-track)- not bad....
brings it better together than I seem to with just Ozone - and I'm
happy with Ozone settings now - just want it all a little tighter, and
staying clean.
Ozone itself of course does some mastering....but somehow I
think it needs an overall additional general compression....and maybe the VW is too colored for that role (though it has a 'multi-band com/lim mastering' setting)

PSP Master Comp or the Sonalkis? Both are around $250 and the Sonalkis is 20% off...Or a good Waves comp? Or make Ozone work somehow...

Also - would one of those somehow work for a vocal track coming in?
I'm using a Safesound P1 which I love for vocals (and bass!) but I can
only do one track with it. If I can borrow my friends' Manley Vox for
the 2nd vocal I'm all set....the site on the Sonalkis seems to imply that
it would work well as a substitute for the outboard comp - is that true?

MegaDPuser · Post by **MegaDPuser** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:29 pm

multple compression on the 2 buss is a neat trick that can sound great with the right material. My technique (most projects) is Waves C4 1-3 db -> Waves RenComp 1 db -> Ozone. I've even done RenComp -> C4 -> Rencomp -> Ozone, to good effect, using small amts of compression each time. VW2 can be easily substituted for RenComp just make sure "Drive" is off or very very low - VW will color the sound, but in a good way most of the time

Ozone's comp is not the greatest comp out there. I know guys who put it last n the chain, and use just the digital EQ and limiter/dither, feeding it a signal that's been fully compressed already.

HeadMaster · Post by **HeadMaster** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:03 pm

Download some demos and give them a shot until you find what you like.

For the Sonalksis sv-315 mk2 there's a dude on gearslutz who has made some SSL presets for buscompression that are pretty useful.

Can be found in the linklist here:

http://www.popmusic.dk/links-uk.html

Good luck!

. . .
HM

pencilina · Post by **pencilina** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:58 pm

I agree... Renaissance comp has that nice opto response for general leveling (the mastering presets are an excellent starting point) as opposed to the punchy girth and specific sound you get from VW. I've never been able to get a sound out of ozone that I liked better then ren comp>VW>MW or W1. If VW is sounding too colored try messing with the mix setting. Somehow ozone imparts a sterility that doesn't serve my mixes. You might want consider picking up the waves renaissance max bundle or go outboard for those few strategic tracks - FMR RNCs are nice and dbx 166s (or 166a) can be had pretty cheap these days but are a PITA for recall purposes. You could also record your individual tracks through the p1 back into DP. The waves bundle is $100 more then the sonksis compressor on sale and will give you a bunch of other tools besides compression (the IR_L convolution verb rules BTW). Then again nothing beats a good pro-mastering job for important stuff.

Kubi · Post by **Kubi** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:39 pm

For a CD, I say don't wing it yourself. Take up a collection among your band mates, or play a few benefit shows for the purpose, and get it professionally mastered. The difference is incredible.

I HIGHLY recommend Stephen Marsh, and he has a very reasonable indie rate. He's been recommended to me by Ronan Chris Murphy and a few other outstanding record producers a couple of years ago, and I have used him for everything since. Check out his credits and ask him for his rates. It's so worth it.

As the ad (of another mastering engineer) in TapeOp says:

"Self-mastering is like home dentistry..."

Mountainfeverstudios · Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:10 am

I have to agree with Kubi.

I'm lucky in having a great friend and fellow producer/engineer Sammy Shelor working for me. We trade off projects. I master what he mixes, he masters my mixes. It's amazing what the extra set of ears can add (or take away as necessary) in the mastering process. And we feel the "sum is greater than the whole".

HeadMaster · Post by **HeadMaster** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:17 am

Mountainfeverstudios wrote:I have to agree with Kubi.

I'm lucky in having a great friend and fellow producer/engineer Sammy Shelor working for me. We trade off projects. I master what he mixes, he masters my mixes. It's amazing what the extra set of ears can add (or take away as necessary) in the mastering process. And we feel the "sum is greater than the whole".

That sounds just great! Very good idea indeed.

But when you do demos for the publisher or whatever you are delivering to that is not yet the real product, a good mix-limiter and eq is quite handy to give a little more "pro" feeling to the clients ears, and then it's more or less always overkill to spend too much time or cash on some external contractor doing the job..

At least in my reallity...

. . .
HM

Mountainfeverstudios · Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:43 am

Apples to Oranges. I understood he was talking of a completed CD project, not just a "final mix" CD for the group to approve.

HeadMaster · Post by **HeadMaster** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:47 am

Mountainfeverstudios wrote:Apples to Oranges. I understood he was talking of a completed CD project, not just a "final mix" CD for the group to approve.

True!

;P

. . .
HM

kenoflife · Post by **kenoflife** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:58 am

yes, I'm talking about a completed CD - and I'm getting convinced to have someone else do it! Still in 'final mix' stage though

but Im wondering about posting to the group....I haven't connected here for a few months, and then only asking newbie questions here or there - would I put up MP3s or higher somewhere or what? Interested to hear your observations....

TOD · Post by **TOD** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:07 am

For DIY, I would recommend:

MW EQ
Ren Comp
L3

Tod

kenoflife · Post by **kenoflife** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:10 am

in addition to Ozone?

and what's the going (or discount?) rate for the L3 and Ren, please....

TOD · Post by **TOD** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:42 pm

kenoflife wrote:in addition to Ozone?

and what's the going (or discount?) rate for the L3 and Ren, please....

I have Ozone. I don't use it. I'm sure others have great success with it. I just couldn't get "that" sound. Several engineers and producers I work with turned me on to the Eq-RenComp-L3 chain.

L3 goes for around $360.00, (worth every penny IMHO).

Basically I get my track sounding as good as possible at about -6db. Then I EQ on the master, add RenComp for "glue" and to push the level a bit with the OPTO setting. (ratio at about 1.2 :1) and then slap on L3 in the "Hi Res CD master" preset and pull the left most slider down until I've got it as loud as possible without distortion or loss of low end. (usually about 3db).

FYI - I write House / Electro / Club music and this works great to get my tracks at the level of other commercial releases I'm mixing in / out of.

Hope that helps.
Tod

kenoflife · Post by **kenoflife** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:56 pm

Well we do folk/blues/rock/alt country - guitars, keyboards, some reggae too, multi-vocals....

Look like the Renaissance comp is about $200, with the L3 that would be almost at $600....the question at this point is if its worth that to have it and do it - vs. paying a highly regarded local engineer $50 an hour (a steal) - for probably about the same cost total....one way I have the tools to do it again (and we will) but do I know what I'm doing?

Update:
Well I'm going to meet the engineer for an hour Friday and have him check out my SD2 files and I suppose my VW/Ozone aifs as well - should be fun and ear-opening!

TOD · Post by **TOD** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:00 pm

Kenoflife,

Hey, you can't go wrong having a pro do it! Good luck with the project!

Tod