M-Audio Keystation Pro 88.

npatton · Post by **npatton** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:43 pm

One compromise to consider (I said consider, not jump into) is an Alesis QS8 or 8.1. Essentially a Fatar keyboard. Very decent weighted action and all the synth sounds to boot. However...it's an Alesis, and an older one at that. The 8.2 does not transmit aftertouch, so that's right out in my book. Customer service is nill, and there have been some tuning issues, at least with the first generations models. I had the capacitors replaced on my QS7 and tuning was fixed.

The trade-off is a good 88 key weighted action with four sliders and aftertouch for around $1000. You've been warned, but it's good to know there is something below $2000 out there.

FWIW, I use a QS7 (76-key, synth-weighted) for data entry and synth playing, and a Yamaha S90ES for entering piano stuff. I've used a QS8 for some piano gigs where a real one wasn't available. The S90ES fills that role much better now, but runs around $2100.

n

sndhse · Post by **sndhse** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:27 pm

I've used a QS8.1 as a controller for ever with not a problem. I love the touch and feel. The local music store here has a used QS8 for sale. $499 CAN.
I just purchased a used Roland A-90EX for $595 US. That is strickly being used as my road rig (controlling a Receptor Pro JR. I like the touch of this keyboard. I acually prefer the QS8.1 feel, but then again I've had it forever.
I don't know much about the Keystation Pro 88, but I did demo it and was not impressed by the feel. I personally like a weighted keyboard that pushes back a bit when playing. As close to a real piano as possible.
John

pcm · Post by **pcm** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:35 am

dosuna11 wrote:
pcm wrote:I had the 61 note version of this. For about a week. I did not like the feel of the keyboard very much. Kinda springy, and not in a good way. I upgraded to the Axiom. Wow. The keyboard feels fantastic to me (I also own a Yamaha C7 and a Hammond B3, for reference). It's fun to play, and has lots of knobs and sliders that always seem to be mapped to something useful. It has eight drum machine-style pads, which are handy for percussion parts. Plus, it has aftertouch. The 61-note version was $285. at Amazon. For me, it's a keeper.
Does it map the same velocity settings as Buzzsmith and the rest are finding?

I don't know, I just know I like it. BTW, I used to own a Kurzweil PC2X, which I sold after getting a real piano. I replaced it with the 76-key version, the PC2. I like the Axiom keyboard as much as either, so now that is for sale too.... VI's are all I will use from now on.

mongoose · Post by **mongoose** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:35 am

I'm very fond of my Roland XV-88, which for my tastes has the best piano action I've played on a synth. Everybody's hands are different, of course. I think the XV-88 is out of production now but you occasionally see them on eBay or Craigslist for withing the price range you're talking about.

In te sub-$1000 market I think you will be best served by getting a used board from Roland, Kurzweil, or Yamaha (or maybe Alesis if you can find one in good condition). I've just not been impressed with any of the cheap 'piano-action' boards currently on the market.

-m

Tripi · Post by **Tripi** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:30 am

I have a keystation pro 88 as my main controller, and while the action is a little unpiano-like, it works well for what I do.

One thing I've noticed lately is that when I use the USB MIDI connection, it sometimes just disappears. DP still sees it, but it will not receive any MIDI information. It even shows up in audio/MIDI setup. I do a quick power on power off and there it is again.

I always wished that Yamaha would wake up and make a P120 (or P140) blended with all of the controllers of the m-audio KS88. Yamaha has the piano feel that I like, and it would even be nice to have one good onboard piano sound, but to also have all of the MIDI controllers.

Do you think I could just swap a new keyboard into my KS88 shell? hmmm...

stiefelmusik · Post by **stiefelmusik** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:00 am

Tripi wrote:
I always wished that Yamaha would wake up and make a P120 (or P140) blended with all of the controllers of the m-audio KS88. Yamaha has the piano feel that I like, and it would even be nice to have one good onboard piano sound, but to also have all of the MIDI controllers.

Yes, exactly. My own quest for the Holy Grail of Keyboard Controllers is not over. It seems that the ones that have the best keyboard action have the fewest MIDI controllers, and the ones with the most MIDI controllers, the worst. For the time being I've settled for a compromise, which is that I have an M-Audio Axiom for the MIDI controller/synth stuff, and then I use an old Korg digital piano with a decent keyboard (but horrible sounds) when I need 88 keys and a weighted action.

Tripi · Post by **Tripi** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:58 am

Well then.... there's always this option:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... ory=140076

i think there's a keyboard in there somewhere

tripi

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:55 am

Tripi wrote:Well then.... there's always this option:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... ory=140076

i think there's a keyboard in there somewhere

tripi

Looks like a rip off to me. A plasma screen TV (intended to be streamlined and lighter in weight than a conventional TV) in an 800 pound case.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. NOT! The piano itself is worth maybe $600 in great condition. With the guts removed I can find someone who will cart it away for about $50.

Very funny...

dosuna11 · Post by **dosuna11** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:38 pm

I bought the axiom 61. As guitar player the velocity stuff did not seem to bug me as I am a guitar player. PCM did you get it working to adjust the the mixer, pan volume etc. Where in the Dp 4.5 manual is this?

SixStringGeek · Post by **SixStringGeek** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:53 pm

I have a KS Pro 88 I use for live playing (actually 2 of them so I don't have to drag one back and forth to practice). I like it fine for that. It has a lot of knobs, buttons, and sliders. You can remap these fairly easily to control various parameters. So it is like getting a keyboard plus a Mackie C4 for less than the cost of the C4.

OTOH, I agree that the action is cheesy feeling and I only use it live. For composing and recording I have an Alesis QS8 which feels really great and highly recommend if you're looking for a real piano feel.

RPB · Post by **RPB** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:50 pm

I have the Pro 88 and I absolutely hate it! In my opinion, the action sucks, particularly for a piano controller (which is what i primarily use it for). However, i recently bought the Studiologic SL-990 XP controller and I LOVE IT!!! so much better. Although i have to say, my favorite (as far as action and feel is concerned) is the Yamaha S90es

just my 2 cents

~RB

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:36 pm

Just for no reason, I have to chime in that I still have in my possession one Oberheim Xk that I bought "back in the day" for 400 or 500 used, but I really like it because it is built tough compared to some of the controllers today: metal chassis, wood end caps, and high quality switches, etc. The only trouble it can give me sometimes is that the mod lever will sometimes need to be reset by powering on and off because it will send messages when in the detente position.

But still... something nice about controller made with sheet metal.

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:25 pm

I almost bought one of the little-known Oberheim MC-series controllers quite recently, as it may have been the best one ever made (even better than Kurzweil's MIDIboar, due to better action, but similarly featured and I think even including rare channel aftertouch). Great reviews on the web and in mags. Each model had different features and quirks though.

In the end, as with a recent local Craigslist offer for the Kurzweil MIDIboard, I decided against it strictly due to weight. This is also why I've ruled out the new Kawai MP8 II. Not much point in a controller I can't take to gigs.

It's too bad that it's so difficult to build a sturdy 88-key board that will last and that has good piano action, without it weighing as much as a boat.

npatton · Post by **npatton** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:56 am

mhschmieder wrote:It's too bad that it's so difficult to build a sturdy 88-key board that will last and that has good piano action, without it weighing as much as a boat.

Yup. I use an S90ES. It's actually pretty light for an 88-key weighted synth. But they made it too long for most standard cases. I got tired of chipping and knicking the endcaps on doorjams, and I live in Oregon where it rains half the year. The only case I could get at the time was the biggest Road Ready case. It weighs more than the synth. With them together, I have to bring a cart with me to even small gigs. It's just too freakin' heavy! Yet, IMHO, it's the best sounding hardware option in it's price range, so I cart it all wherever I go.

(Playing in a greenhouse tomorrow with my wife on flute. Annual poinsettia sale for a great nursery in town. Nothing like playing Christmas music in a sea of poinsettias surrounded by burbling fountains and decorative statues. Weirdest and most fun gig ever!)

(There I go again posting way OT. Carry on...)
n

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:58 pm

Not really all that OT; it's always worth considering whether an 88-key synth, especially a cheap used one that has good controllers, is a better way to go than a dedicated MIDI-only controller.

For me, the range is narrowed further by my preference for graded vs. balanced hammer action. Onky a few keyboards support that (aside from higher-end Digital Pianos, not all of which are portable).