Digital Performer and Duende

[thealtsax]

Hi,

I bought SSL Duende two weeks ago...and the nightmare began!
When I insert one SSL plug-in in a DP's track, I heard some odds things. For example with the Bus Compressor in a sub-master channel, some weird sounds like "BRTZSCRPABSBUZZ" come out or, after some noises, the song plays about one beat later than the beat counter. If I put a plug-in into an audio track it happens the same thing but only in this track.
Duende is on a separate firewire bus on a PCI card.
The option 'Always Run in Realtime' is on.
I had this problem with the audio buffer size at 1024 samples
and less with the buffer at 512. But also at 512 Duende don't work fine.
I wrote to SSL's tech support and they answered me that Duende have some problems with Digital Performer working at certain buffer size and they told me to try older software version with relatives driver and firmware versions (the first version I installed was 2.2).
I tried but the problems remain.
"Unfortunately" Duende works fine with Logic.
Have anybody experienced the same problems and found out a workaround?

Thank you

Ciao

Daniele

[kwiz]

I'm running Duende ver. 2.2 on a dual 1.8 G5 with 10.4.11 with no problems.
I see that you are running DP5.12, try updating to 5.13 and see if that fixes the problem.

Good luck.

[bjornln]

Try updating to 5.13...

/B

[thealtsax]

Tried DP 5.13 but is always the same.

Thanks

[corbo-billy]

I had exactly the same things with Duende used with D.P. and very
tested but then one does not play any more music.
The solution; I resold it _

[newrigel]

I was watching the SSL forums since the beginning and they seem to have a few problems so I'm just sticking with the Liquid Mix... works flawlessly!
Quite a bit cheaper too! Get 2 for the price of one Duende!
My mixes have improved drastically!
I really like the Duende but with this Mac Pro It seems as though they have a while left till the things solid...

[Frodo]

Part of it to my thinking is that it's 5.12. This version of DP has been very unkind to me since day 1, even where others are not having a problem with it. Duende is quite stable in 5.11, and it seems okay so far in 5.13 (although I've not used it a lot or pushed it very hard just yet.

I agree-- try 5.13 or even go back to 5.11

One thing I would do just to test things and narrow down the problem is to disconnect all other firewire devices and then plug Duende directly into the computer itself.

Given that you've either:
-- updated the driver to the latest version
-- reinstalled the same drive you are using in case of corruption
-- tried an earlier version of the driver
-- have updated your Duende firmware

Try Duende as mentioned above-- plugged directly into the computer's fw port... making sure it's the ONLY device attached (whether in use or not).

If it works well, then there's some incompatibility with Duende and your particular FW host card. Check the drivers for the card. Reinstall them or update them. It is possible that not all FW host cards are compatible.

If Duende still doesn't work properly after this, take it back to the merchant and have the merchant test the device. If it's new and doesn't work on the merchant's computer (in DP), have the merchant replace it.

However, if it works on his computer but not on yours, the cause of the problem could be just about anything.

I would contact SSL. If there are any specific error messages, make careful note of them. If you experience a crash, look for the associated crash log in User Library> Logs> CrashReporter>DigitalPerformer.crash.log.

Note that if DP has crashed before, there may be several logs in one document. Do a word search (Apple-F) and type in the date (year-month-day) at the time the crash occured: for example: 2007-11-22. If a "report to Apple" window opens when the crash occurs, you could also just copy and paste the crash log from that window into Text Edit or into an e-mail draft. This may be easier.

I'm sure corbo-billy's solution of dumping the Duende is one way around the issue. I happen to love Duende because what it has to offer is quite different from similar devices.

Newrigel makes a good point about things not yet being solid yet, but I should wonder if DP isn't among contributors to the problem since Duende appears to work well in Logic on the same machine.

I'd say it's worth the time to sort it out if SSL is what you're after.

[thealtsax]

Hi and thanks.

Frodo, I alredy tryed all the combinations that you mentioned.
I think the problem is the compatibility with DP, Duende works fine with Logic on the same machine.
I already contacted SSL tech support and this is the answer:
Hi Daniele,

Duende can be picky about which buffer sizes it prefers on certain systems. There are some limits with Duende v2.2 software in DP which means only certain buffer sizes are available. Do you have 2048 available? if so does this work?

You may wish to try an alternative version of the Duende software available here:

http://www.solid-state-logic.com/music/ ... egacy.html

Regards

SSL Service

I tryed what they told me but that didn't solve the problem.
I hope SSL will fix soon the compatibility with DP becouse I like it very much!

Ciao

Daniele

[corbo-billy]

I use two Fireface 800 RME on bus Firewire800 of MACPro and it is
incompatible with Duende.
With only one Fireface 800, it was good but not both then I
sold it and finished the troubles, maintenance.

At home, one is not with the garage but to make music, sorry _ It is an image!

[Frodo]

One must indeed make the best decision for their own purposes. But the moment in which one chooses to exchange hardware must be carefully considered. I always prefer to eliminate user error and softwre errors first before removing the hardware.

I agree-- it's about music not only at the end of the day, but also at the beginning of the day and at every moment in between.

But at some point one must also consider if DP itself ought not be removed from some part of the process. No one is going to care if a project was done in DP or Logic or ProTools or Nuendo. The listener only cares that it sounds good. For me, if Duende offers a desired quality of sound that improves the results, then I'd want to keep rather than to let DP determine what I can or can't use.

But different people have different priorities. Some people won't work with anything else other than DP. Some people value the musical results above all other technical glitches. It's become clear to me that it's necessary to balance the two for the sake of the musical results. Maybe that's more trouble than some people feel it's worth, not sure.

Had Duende not worked at all, I would not have kept it--- trust me. Things like this are too expensive to be dysfunctional. But, I've only offered some suggestions because Duende *is* working on my system.

If something which doesn't work on my system works well on someone else's system, I'd want to know what it is. It might be DP or it might some other driver or plugin. Chances are that the same driver or plugin will also cause problems with other software.

My goal is to eliminate the problem itself rather than to just eliminate the symptoms. I've made that mistake before as well.

[3rdeye]

Hi Frodo,

So Duende works on your system? What system do you work on? Anything on the FW bus? If I remember correctly you were a UAD-1 user right?

One must indeed make the best decision for their own purposes. But the moment in which one chooses to exchange hardware must be carefully considered. I always prefer to eliminate user error and softwre errors first before removing the hardware.

I agree-- it's about music not only at the end of the day, but also at the beginning of the day and at every moment in between.

But at some point one must also consider if DP itself ought not be removed from some part of the process. No one is going to care if a project was done in DP or Logic or ProTools or Nuendo. The listener only cares that it sounds good. For me, if Duende offers a desired quality of sound that improves the results, then I'd want to keep rather than to let DP determine what I can or can't use.

But different people have different priorities. Some people won't work with anything else other than DP. Some people value the musical results above all other technical glitches. It's become clear to me that it's necessary to balance the two for the sake of the musical results. Maybe that's more trouble than some people feel it's worth, not sure.

Had Duende not worked at all, I would not have kept it--- trust me. Things like this are too expensive to be dysfunctional. But, I've only offered some suggestions because Duende *is* working on my system.

If something which doesn't work on my system works well on someone else's system, I'd want to know what it is. It might be DP or it might some other driver or plugin. Chances are that the same driver or plugin will also cause problems with other software.

My goal is to eliminate the problem itself rather than to just eliminate the symptoms. I've made that mistake before as well.

[Frodo]

Hi Frodo,

So Duende works on your system? What system do you work on? Anything on the FW bus? If I remember correctly you were a UAD-1 user right?

Duende is the only FW device connected to my system by any means. I have no FW cards or FW drives. When I archive to FW drives, I unplug Duende. Once done, I unplug the FW drive and plug Duende back in. One thing that makes this a simpler process than it seems is that I've got the Duende cable running underneath my MacPro so that the plug can access one of the front FW ports, which is less than an arm's distance away.

There is the one caveat that SSL talks about with DP specifically, and that is the latest version (2.x) may not render on bounce. They suggest freezing the tracks containing Duende instances and then bouncing. I'm sure that for those using a dozen or more tracks this will be a pain-- and rightfully so.

DP has or has had other freeze/bounce issues, so it seems to me that if and when the problem occurs that it's more of a DP problem where the same version of the driver works fine in other DAWs on the same system.

[3rdeye]

Aha, I see.
I usually make a different stereo track and assign it's input to the master track's output. Then I just hit record and listen to the 2 track "manual" bounce in real-time. I got used to doing this because often I'd find myself stopping this procedure and correcting something in the mix.
I guess bounce to disk wouldn't be an issue with my method then.

What about the UADs? Has anyone experienced any problems with them and Duende on the same system?

Hi Frodo,

So Duende works on your system? What system do you work on? Anything on the FW bus? If I remember correctly you were a UAD-1 user right?

Duende is the only FW device connected to my system by any means. I have no FW cards or FW drives. When I archive to FW drives, I unplug Duende. Once done, I unplug the FW drive and plug Duende back in. One thing that makes this a simpler process than it seems is that I've got the Duende cable running underneath my MacPro so that the plug can access one of the front FW ports, which is less than an arm's distance away.

There is the one caveat that SSL talks about with DP specifically, and that is the latest version (2.x) may not render on bounce. They suggest freezing the tracks containing Duende instances and then bouncing. I'm sure that for those using a dozen or more tracks this will be a pain-- and rightfully so.

DP has or has had other freeze/bounce issues, so it seems to me that if and when the problem occurs that it's more of a DP problem where the same version of the driver works fine in other DAWs on the same system.

[Osh]

Fortunately i got a loan of a Duende,,, i had it for two months and could not get it to work!!! what a waste of time!!!


I tried it on two different laptops, an Ibook G4 and then on my new MacBook Pro running DP 5.12 .....

Didn't work on either machine!! talked to SSl on the phone many times,, tried all the various settings.... i liked the plugs when they worked,, i cud get one instance to run properly but when i get to about six instances it's like putting a tremelo effect on my mix.........

the thing that gets me is why SSl say it is compatible with DP when it is clearly not.... and then i end doing the testing,,,, hey!! i should be getting paid for this!!!! what a piece of shhhh***********te!!!

I'll be goin the UAD route

[XA]

hi there everybody,
just reporting my experience if someone needs it...


I have a MacBook Pro 15", Intel Core 2 Duo 2,16GHz, 3GB RAM
and an 828MKII FW

I bought a duende mini and a powercore compact. Along with a NitroAV FW800 ExpressCard

I did that after being assured by the respective techs that a fully expanded - fully loaded duende mini uses 45% of firewire 400 bus ("Duende uses 45% of a firewire 400 bus when used at 44.1/48kHz. This figure rises to 85% when used at high sample rates") and a fully loaded p.core compact max 15%

I installed both with no problems and updated all the softwares to the latest versions but duende plugins were unusable in DP (even with "Always use in Realtime" enabled)

I use mainly dp for recording, mixing and video sync and pro tools LE only when needed

I tried with PT and the situation was better (except for the manual delay compensation) but, after inserting more than some instances, audio begun to drop out

so searching on ssl site I found this phrase about version 2.5.6 (that is the last one):

"NOTE: Pro Tools users should not install this software. Due to a change in the Channel Strip & X-EQ RTAS plug-ins, previously saved plug-in settings will not be preserved. This will be addressed in the next software update. If you are a Pro Tools user and you have already installed this software please downgrade to V2.5.3 (MAC) or V2.5.2 (PC).

This does not affect other DAWs such as Cubase/Nuendo, Logic, Live etc."

so I downgraded to V2.5.3 and guess what?

It works!

it works with pro tools (32 instances of ssl plugs and near-fully loaded P.Core)

but it goes with digital performer too! (I reproduced the same session/project)

hereis a screenshot:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/ajqp39

the only other relevant thing I did was to connect MBP-expresscard-duende-p.core (instead of MBP-expresscard-p.core-duende); theoretically this shoud not be different but, you know, we are working with "digital creative machines" here, not "sturdy old analougue stuff" so...


bye,
Lorenzo