How does everyone feel about sampling?

[Mr. Quimper]

generally,i prefer synthesis, but i do use samples to
a: create new "found" sounds.
b: imitate instruments i couldn't possibly afford (for instance, an orchestra).

Well, I didn't really mean sampling as in "virtual instruments" that are used fairly universally these days...but more in the sound collage sense of appropriating small pieces of existing music to create a new piece.

[Shooshie]

I'm afraid that I'm kind of old-school. The sampled stuff just doesn't appeal much to me, though I think it works well in comedy. I'm not saying that sampled works are funny, but that it can be hilariously funny to deliberately juxtapose samples in a way that is incongruous and... well... funny. But the serious stuff? I'm just not there, I guess. I never liked music concréte all that much, either, and they were doing stuff like that even in the 1920's. George Antheil, for instance. It's funny, I was reading some of Antheil's writings the other day in a reader I have of composers' prose writings, and his arguments and rationales sounded like the same things I hear today: music is whatever we define it to be, it's only a matter of time until everyone likes this stuff, it's the way of the future, yadda, yadda... And that was written in about 1920 in Paris.

Of course, in Antheil's time, they were limited to what they could drag into the backdoor of the concert hall -- airplane propellers, jackhammers, steam whistles, etc. He'd have gone nuts with our stuff.

I think that my "version" of sampling is to arrange other people's works. I like arranging things for odd ensembles. I've got tons of stuff that I've arranged from every composer you can imagine since the 15th century, for two instruments -- like soprano sax and clarinet.

I'm sure it's just a matter of getting your head oriented to it, but I haven't done that, apparently. The stuff I hear kind of leaves me cold. The DJ as performance art? Hmm... it's just not my cuppa.

Shoosh

[Spikey Horse]

My favourite type of bad sampling is that kind which was (briefly) in vogue about 4 years ago or so

- 1 sampled loop of let's say Prokofiev's 'Dance of the knights'
- 1 kick
- 1 snare
- Some menacing dude going 'Yeah... Huh.... Yeah... cos I'm your worst nightmare motherf-' etc etc

... sure you could say it's accidentally brilliantly appropriate to mix urban music with its gang culture and violence with the score to R+J but I'm just saying it sounds f***ing ridiculously bad ...


The other thing how sampling has been turned on it's head from being a means to an end to a genre/motif in itself - eg an original recording of original music being played by the original artist on say guitar or whatever ... then it all being chopped up and butchered to make it sound like it was ripped from some one else's record..... I've heard that done a lot.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I guess, as a general rule, if you can't think of something original, you'll have to grab someone's coat tails and sample their original ideas. Pity! Try not to get caught, especially if it's my work. My attorney is brutal and I love him for it.

Look at it this way: if you want my music in your production, I want your money in my pocket. Seems fair, No? Don't want to pay royalties? See you in court, or more likely, at the settlement hearings.

Seriously, stealing is illegal. Sampling is stealing. You may disagree, but that's the law. How anyone "feels" about it doesn't matter. If you're guilty of it and you're caught, you run the risk of being sued.

Do the math: defense attorneys traditionally ask about $20k TO START! More likely $50k and you pick up the expenses. Heck, music school is cheaper.

[FMiguelez]

.

How anyone "feels" about it doesn't matter. If you're guilty of it and you're caught, you run the risk of being sued.

Not only that. It can also RUIN your reputation as well.

So ending up being bankrupt, with a bad reputation... NOT worth it.

Bottom line: don't do it unless you really have to (for some reason), BUT with permission.
ESPECIALLY if it's MLC's music

[FMiguelez]

.

I thought, until a few posts ago, that you meant sampling as in using a Sample library. My advice to you would be: DON'T. If you don't have the time to record a real snare drum, then just use CLEARED sample libraries that are sold specifically for that purpose. I really think you risk getting in trouble otherwise. Besides, you'll spend so much time "hiding" your deed anyway, so why not use instead something that you can legally use??

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I think they are talking about sampling sections of existent music, not just a snare drum or trombone note. Michael Jackson used a section of a Beethoven Symphony a few years ago and Sony actually owned the recording in question. But since they didn't pay a fee to the orchestra members who performed on the recording to use their performance on the MJ CD, they sued Sony ... and won!

Musician's union at work and darn good of them (for the sake of the orchestra members). So even if you own the recording, you don't own the performance. Would anyone get "caught" for using a single snare hit? I doubt it. But What the heck? There are snare hits a plenty that are perfectly legal to use.

[FMiguelez]

I think they are talking about sampling sections of existent music, not just a snare drum or trombone note. Michael Jackson used a section of a Beethoven Symphony a few years ago and Sony actually owned the recording in question. But since they didn't pay a fee to the orchestra members who performed on the recording to use their performance on the MJ CD, they sued Sony ... and won!

Musician's union at work and darn good of them (for the sake of the orchestra members). So even if you own the recording, you don't own the performance. Would anyone get "caught" for using a single snare hit? I doubt it. But What the heck? There are snare hits a plenty that are perfectly legal to use.

I wouldn't bother sampling out of an artist's CD some snare drum, LET ALONE WHOLE PHRASES. No. I really think that's just plain wrong, not to mention ilegal, as you said.

I already feel uncomfortable and uneasy when using legal loops when I must use them... I don't think I might be able to sleep piecefully knowing I just ripped a few bars from someone else's music. That's just asking for un-needed trouble.

Hey, MLC, you seem to be brutal in terms of protecting your music, or to get due payment when someone uses you music without your previous permission/negotiation I don't blame you at all. I understand you've won already a few cases. I remember you once mentioned you have some kind of law background. Is that right?
I can tell you I wouldn't like to be in a room with a bunch of lawyers with you sitting in the opposite side of the table

[carrythebanner]

I think maybe the original spirit of the question may be getting lost a little amidst the legal aspect of using samples you don't have permission to use. There is plenty of music available that's legal to sample, be it an old record in the public domain or a new song released with a Creative Commons license which explicitly allows sampling.

[jgest]

I think maybe the original spirit of the question may be getting lost a little amidst the legal aspect of using samples you don't have permission to use. There is plenty of music available that's legal to sample, be it an old record in the public domain or a new song released with a Creative Commons license which explicitly allows sampling.

I agree with your comment. I think the generational battle lines establish themselves as various sides (both sides of the argument) take a closed minded approach to the creative possibilities.......Some great sampling artists that come to mind.....
SHPONGLE!

Let alone the amon tobin drum break sample that single handedly launched countless electronic genres.....

This is probably a rather sticky subject that can not resolve itself harmoniously considering the vast genre and generational gaps that we all are a part of. 20 years ago I had adamant opinions against the topic. Now days I embrace any muse that can inspire me creatively as when I am inspired, my humanity is heightened and I share my light with all who I encounter........
SO, persia never sampled egypt, and the greeks never sampled the persians, the roman's....the greeks.....and so on and so on.....

[sdfalk]

I tend to sample whatever is around me.
Kitchen implements/pots and pans, a 20 year old Hawaiian guitar in my
possession...
I have no problem with sampling if it's done in an interesting, creative
fashion.
I mean geez..we do have computers.
There must be a million ways to tweak the sound of a tin cup, and make
it musically useful.

[jgest]

I tend to sample whatever is around me.
Kitchen implements/pots and pans, a 20 year old Hawaiian guitar in my
possession...
I have no problem with sampling if it's done in an interesting, creative
fashion.
I mean geez..we do have computers.
There must be a million ways to tweak the sound of a tin cup, and make
it musically useful.

Now were talking sane sense. coffee and 420 on me if ever we meet!

[sdfalk]

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I tend to sample whatever is around me.
Kitchen implements/pots and pans, a 20 year old Hawaiian guitar in my
possession...
I have no problem with sampling if it's done in an interesting, creative
fashion.
I mean geez..we do have computers.
There must be a million ways to tweak the sound of a tin cup, and make
it musically useful.

That's a whole 'nutter issue! Recording sounds that I make or exists naturally in the environment (or unnaturally - like a car, leaf blower, etc.) for use in music or production is not only ethical, but a major component of my work both as a composer and sound designer. There is no ethical question there, only an artistic one and those never get settled in an argument.

I interpreted the question as focused on sampling the musical work (protected intellectual property) of another person - and THAT is what I find morally and ethically reprehensible. As far as public domain works (where copyright is expired or has been specifically avoided by the author - such as Garageband elements) I have no problem, artistically or morally, whatsoever if that is how you want to make music. As an old-school orchestral composer this is as alien to me as trying to trying to breathe bleach. But I have used (and will continue to use) public domain works as elements of scores and sound designs when theatrically appropriate and effective.

To answer GM's inquiry in re: my legal background, I regret to inform you that due to constraints beyond my control, I am prohibited from responding fully as doing so could conceivably compromise my position in completed, pending and/or contemplated litigation. [Emphasis added.]

MM

In Pro Per

[MIDI Life Crisis]

...coffee and 420 on me if ever we meet!

Dang!