DP & Leopard... UPDATE: DP 5.13 is out!

Mr. Quimper · Post by **Mr. Quimper** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:12 pm

Yes, I know it's there once you look at the full story, but quickly reading the summery on the front page could lead someone to believe that it is compatible.

For the record, I have no intentions of upgrading to Leopard, I just think that MOTU should make it a little more immediately clear on their main page that DP is not currently compatible...again, by simply putting another image on their front page. After all, images speak louder than words and seeing a shiny DP box next to a Leopard box can communicate something very quickly with the text "unleash a Leopard in your MOTU studio", and I'm sure you know that people can be very lazy or in a hurry and won't take the time to read the full text.

Mr. Quimper · Post by **Mr. Quimper** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:15 pm

I'm not trying to make a big fuss about it, just making a little critical observation.

misty · Post by **misty** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:15 pm

I disagree James... Digi did it right. They were forthright in their intentions with NO room for conjecture .. there are no dots to connect.
Not quite sure what motu is up to but it appears that honesty is being left to the eyes of the beholder...

Respectively
mi

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:05 pm

James Steele wrote:Nowhere is DP mentioned.

I got this far and thought "oh goody!"

"Mac OS X Leopard (10.5) ships October 26, 2007. Are your MOTU software and hardware products going to be compatible? Absolutely"

Not the end of the world.

albertors · Post by **albertors** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:13 am

The language isn't deceiving, in fact, the image is..and it's a far more valuable technique than using words. Examples are everywhere in commercials, ads, TV stuff and so on.

I actually see nothing strange in saying that, just like it's also perfectly normal to state that the words were not deceiving. They weren't. By the same token, the image is.

This said, if you lost work hours, productivity or generally had any loss or damage from your upgrading to Leopard, that's your fault..you're so grown up and still didn't learn basic survival techniques? No problem (unless you really did loose the big bucks, of course!), now you've learnt. We all learnt the hard way, pretty much.

Peace!

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:49 am

albertors wrote:The language isn't deceiving, in fact, the image is...

Dang! He's right. It was perhaps the image that snagged me. Hadn't thought about that! Thanks. Notice the URL title?

http://www.motu.com/newsitems/images/[b ... -boxes.jpg[/b]***

OK, I don't feel like I jumped the gun at all. I'm still not mad as hell and not gonna take anymore, but I don't feel as much like a dunce - at least not about that.

*- When I bolded the questionable text, it broke the link. The resulting link takes you to a page of all the photo links on the MOTU site. As soon as they find out about that, they'll have their web guy/gal(s) cover that vulnerability, but in the mean time, there are all sorts of picts that don't appear on the site currently - and many that DO. Maybe someone with more time that I have right now can gleam something out of those picts...?

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:26 am

misty wrote:I disagree James... Digi did it right. They were forthright in their intentions with NO room for conjecture .. there are no dots to connect.
Not quite sure what motu is up to but it appears that honesty is being left to the eyes of the beholder...

Respectively
mi

Well I don't think it was done with the intent to deceive as you seem to be implying. It's really clear if someone CHOOSES TO READ! I think reading is a very useful skill in society, and one that more people should utilize. If you look a a picture and don't read the article and then simply interpret the picture to mean whatever you'd like it to mean, you're in for problems.

I have heard that DP 5.11 works better than 5.12 in Leopard actually. Notice I said I "have heard." I don't want people saying that I said it definitely works better and being mad at me. All those common sense precautions should be taken.

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:38 am

James Steele wrote: If you look a a picture and don't read the article and then simply interpret the picture to mean whatever you'd like it to mean, you're in for problems.

I'm living proof!

James Steele wrote:I have heard that DP 5.11 works better than 5.12 in Leopard actually. Notice I said I "have heard." I don't want people saying that I said it definitely works better and being mad at me. All those common sense precautions should be taken.

Hadn't thought of trying that, but it might be interesting to. I've got some time this morning... <whoosh!>

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:44 am

James Steele wrote:I have heard that DP 5.11 works better than 5.12 in Leopard actually. Notice I said I "have heard." I don't want people saying that I said it definitely works better and being mad at me. All those common sense precautions should be taken.

DANG JAMES! DP 5.11 works in Leopard!!! Now isn't THAT interesting! And I can stop rebooting into Tiger

(which always crashes Leopard EVERY TIME!).

So the fix to DP might not be so bad after all. That is very promising, indeed.

Thanks for posting that Mr. Moderator!

<scratching his head as he leaves... 'hmmm... DP 5.11 works in Leopard. I'll be a monkey's ass...' >

albertors · Post by **albertors** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:59 pm

I agree on those valuable suggestions and I believe in those as well, I think what you wrote is absolutely wise.

However, nothing changes the mere fact that they put a picture like that. I know that:
1) Reading would have definitely been a positive thing to do;
2) Their mouse might have slipped and created that picture accidentally;
3) There is still no excuse to loosing money/work during a new-OS tryout/test;

but still that picture is what that picture is. If my son had done it in Paint and posted it there on motu.com I would still tell him/her this very same thing..and I would still tell him to understand without further explanations why hundreds of emails received after Oct 26th contain colorful expressions and considerations about his expertise and his job position.

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:47 pm

It would have saved me so much pain and suffering (OK, I'm not really in pain or suffering...) if they would have said DP 5.11 works in Leopard and DP 5.12 doesn't. I mean really!!!

albertors · Post by **albertors** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:27 pm

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:It would have saved me so much pain and suffering (OK, I'm not really in pain or suffering...) if they would have said DP 5.11 works in Leopard and DP 5.12 doesn't. I mean really!!!

I didn't even take this seriously at first but now I am reading it here and there a little too much for me not to try it out. I'll let you know how it goes..

did I mention I will back all my projects up? There are evil JPEGs around!

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:00 pm

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:
James Steele wrote:I have heard that DP 5.11 works better than 5.12 in Leopard actually. Notice I said I "have heard." I don't want people saying that I said it definitely works better and being mad at me. All those common sense precautions should be taken.
DANG JAMES! DP 5.11 works in Leopard!!! Now isn't THAT interesting! And I can stop rebooting into Tiger (which always crashes Leopard EVERY TIME!).

So the fix to DP might not be so bad after all. That is very promising, indeed.

Thanks for posting that Mr. Moderator!

<scratching his head as he leaves... 'hmmm... DP 5.11 works in Leopard. I'll be a monkey's ass...' >

I'm an not a programmer so I can only make very poorly informed guesses. But if you remember, DP 5.12 introduced some changes with how DP saved files. As a result, when you opened a 5.11 project in 5.12, I believe it had to convert your existing audio files and to later reopen a 5.12 project in 5.11, you had to duplicate audio to convert it back. I believe MOTU made the change to more properly conform to filename extension conventions for SD2 files.

As you recall, all the 5.12 problems in Leopard seem to happen when there is an operation involving writing to a file (bouncing, creating a fade, etc.). This also might be connected to all the problems that file utility apps like iDefrag and Disk Warrior are having. There were reports of a bug in the Leopard kernal being responsible, because these vendors reported that if you BOOTED WITH TIGER, you could then run their utilities on a Leopard disk with no ill effects. It was when you ran the utility when booted with LEOPARD that there was a problem.

So honestly, sounds like DP was indeed Leopard ready at 5.11 and that perhaps the same issues that messed up DiskWarrior, etc. was messing with file access in DP 5.12, specifically creating and writing to files.

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:07 pm

James Steele wrote:...sounds like DP was indeed Leopard ready at 5.11...

Apparently so. I hope you don;t mind my posting the information on 5.11 and Leopard. I can keep the info to myself if you wish, but I thought other users would be interested in what I was doing. I can rarely be so bold as there is almost always a project going on in DP.

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:09 pm

It's no secret that 5.11 seems to work with Leopard. There's no reason I'd care if people know about it. Someone posted about it on MOTU-MAC recently as well. I was just posting a reminder about duplicating the audio when saving 5.12 projects as 5.11.