Still Getting Audio Glitches... Performance Tips?

[Dark Goob]

My setup:
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MacBook Pro 2.4 GHZ (2GB RAM, 160GB 5400 RPM internal drive)
Rocstor 500GB 7200RPM FireWire 800 drive
MOTU 828
Digi 002 Rack
OS X 10.4.10
DP 5.12
Reason 3.0.5
Photon X25 connected on USB
Korg X2 connected with Yamaha MIDI USB adapter

The HD is connected to the MacBook Pro's FW800 port. The Digi 002 Rack is then connected (daisy chained) to the HD. Then, the MOTU 828 is connected (daisy chained) to the 002 Rack.

Meanwhile the Photon X25 is talking to Reason's Maelstrom Graintable Synth which is connected to DP5 via ReWire. The X2 is going MIDI into DP5.

My project:
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256ms Latency, 2x Host Buffer Multiplier
2 stereo busses
11 total record tracks (9 mono, 2 stereo)
2 MIDI record tracks
5 total effects plugins enabled
44KHZ record rate

I have all things that could possibly lag my system turned off. Force quit Finder. Airport is off. Sharing and AppleTalk is off. Bluetooth is off. Etc. ad infinitum. System performance is set to "Maximum."

The processor gauge in the system performance meter of DP5 (lower right corner of screenshot below) never goes more than 1/3rd of the way green. It NEVER peaks out. Same with the record and playback meters. The disk performance should be MORE than adequate.

In the Activity Monitor, the processors appear to be peaked out however. Obviously, Reason and the Digidesign Audio driver running in the background are eating up some cycles.

Here is my question:
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I am considering purchasing a Firewire 800 ExpressCard34 card for the MacBook Pro's expansion slot, and connecting the external HD to that port. Alternatively I could purchase a Firewire 400 ExpressCard34 card and run the Digi 002 Rack through that, while running the MOTU 828 daisy-chained off the FireWire 800 HD. (You can't use the FireWire 400 and 800 ports on the MacBook Pro simultaneously because they are on the same system bus internally, and its max bandwidth is only 800 mbs. Therefore if you are using the FW 800 port you cannot also use the FW 400 port; hence the need for the ExpressCard34 expansion card.) Which of these options would be the best way to go? Or do you think that this is not my problem?

Another thing I was thinking about was to increase my system memory from 2GB up to 4GB, and/or upgrading my internal HD to a 7200RPM 200GB drive.

So the question is whether the cause of the cracks in the audio is that there is not enough bandwidth on the FireWire bus, or I don't have enough system memory, or my internal HD is not fast enough?

I refuse to believe that the 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo processor is not powerful enough to run this fairly barebones setup... it seems like the problem HAS to be something with the RAM or the bus speed bottlenecking.

Thanks for any help...

Here is an image of the project:
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[Dark Goob]

Oh, also: would setting Reason's CPU usage limit down from 80% to something like 70% (the minimum allowable) affect things?

[toodamnhip]

I too would like to know if changing Reason;s allowable CPU usage affects things

[emulatorloo]

I have heard time and time again here on unicornation that digi core audio drivers are not everything they should be. Good enough to play your iTunes, but not so good for pro apps.

What happens if you remove digi 002?

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[Mr_Clifford]

I agree, lose the 002r out of the chain. You don't really need it in there do you?

2 audio interfaces plus a hard-drive all on a single Firewire 400 bus is asking for trouble.

[daniel.sneed]

Very basic, but just in case :

You made your choice of which of your 2 interfaces is master, didn't you ?
That one is chosed as clock source in DP, isn't it ?

Then, how do you send clock from the master to the slave interface ?

[widnikprod]

I'm also getting artifacts on the audio during playback and after using Disc warrior on Harddrive and all external drive. I tried to bounce the mix down and now I'm getting AIFF files that have a duration time of "0" Can anyone tell me how to solve this? I've disengaged the WAVES plugins. I'd greatly appreciate it.

[Dark Goob]

I can't lose the 002 Rack out of the chain, because it's necessary.

The whole point of this is to use the 002 Rack, because it's what we have. The MOTU 828 does not have enough inputs for what we are trying to do. We have 6 XLRs coming in, with the 002 Rack + 828 combo, and we use all six. If we went to just the 828, then we'd have to sacrifice 4 of those! That's not acceptable.

Why in the world would the Digi Rack 002 not be compatible with pro uses?

[daniel.sneed]

Please Dark Goob, answer my question :

"Then, how do you send clock from the master interface to the slave interface ?"

If you don't send it, you get clicks and pops for shure.

[Mr_Clifford]

You are setting up one as a master clock aren't you?

If not, it could be as simple as running a SP-DIF lead from the Digi002r to the 828 and setting one as the master clock. They won't clock together just through the Firewire connection.

[BradLyons]

I can't lose the 002 Rack out of the chain, because it's necessary.

The whole point of this is to use the 002 Rack, because it's what we have. The MOTU 828 does not have enough inputs for what we are trying to do. We have 6 XLRs coming in, with the 002 Rack + 828 combo, and we use all six. If we went to just the 828, then we'd have to sacrifice 4 of those! That's not acceptable.

Why in the world would the Digi Rack 002 not be compatible with pro uses?

THe Core Audio drivers for the Digidesign products aren't that great for other applications. With ProToolsLE, it works just fine--but for programs like DP, it requires the Core Audio Driver. Do you use ProTools or is DP your main program? If you need extra inputs, then get something like a Presonus DigimaxFS, that will give you not only (8) inputs with XLR micpre but also MUCH better quality mic-pres than either. You can either use what you have, or use what will actually work. It's your choice.

[bjornln]

Just a hunch, but...
DAE is a user-level program, that communicates with the hardware (all digi-hardware, as far as I know, but I might be wrong). To get the DAE to communicate with a CoreAudio-unit (=828 unit) which has kernel-level drivers....could be a crapshoot....
(then again, I might be totally wrong on this one)



/B

[emulatorloo]

Dark Goob writes

Why in the world would the Digi Rack 002 not be compatible with pro uses?

Because digidesign's main concern is making the Digi Rack 002 work well with PRO TOOLS LE.

They do not care about making it work well with LOGIC, DIGITAL PERFORMER, CUBASE etc.

That makes sense -- their only interest is having it perform well with PRO TOOLS LE. No interest in Core Audio and other (COMPETING) apps.

However as a service to their customers they have written a core audio driver that is good enough to play back iTunes and your system beeps.



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[Dark Goob]

That makes no sense.

ProTools LE comes free with the hardware. Therefore, their main interest should be to get you to buy the hardware, since obviously they make zero dollars off the software.

By limiting the software the hardware will work with, they are only limiting the number of customers who can buy the hardware. That will make them less money, not more.

Your argument would only make sense if they sold ProTools separately (like MOTU does with DP5). In that hypothetical case, people would be motivated to buy ProTools since it would be the only software that would work with their interface.

However in this reality in which we live, ProTools comes free with the interface. Therefore, Digi does not make any extra money by motivating people to use ProTools (unless you count upgrade fees). I doubt the amount they make back in upgrade fees justifies breaking their hardware in other programs like DP5, which probably hurts their overall sales pretty badly (for example, I was considering buying it until I found out their driver is trash, and now I will not buy it, so they just lost a sale -- and I doubt I'm alone).

[emulatorloo]

That makes no sense.

ProTools LE comes free with the hardware. Therefore, their main interest should be to get you to buy the hardware, since obviously they make zero dollars off the software.

Well it is really hard to separate the two -- protools/digi hardware.

Because people buy digi hardware so that they can run ProTools.

ProTools is the sought after commodity in this case. As it only runs on digi hardware, you have to buy a digi interface.

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At any rate can you try pulling the digi 002r out of the equation and let us know it the audio glitches go away. That would be really useful info to have. . .

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