Can't hear my MIDI in DP5 /n00b

[NitrouStang96]

Hi, I am Derek!

1) Sorry for barging in on your awesome forum and posting an obviously n00b question.
2) This is my first post.
3) I'd be perfectly fine with a link to another thread by someone else with my same problem if it is answered there.

A short description:
I'm new to DP. I have 5.0. I have a Roland XP-50 keyboard and a Roland TD-6 module with the V-drums connected to a USB E-MU 2x2 MIDI interface. The MIDI interface and DP are totally new to me, as is the Mac OS when it comes to setting up the audio. I'm pretty sure I have all of this hooked up properly. I have the manuals to the TD-6, the XP-50, the E-MU, the Mac, DP, and a quite large DP 4.5 how to book I just bought at the book store.

The problem:
I think the problem is in DP. I can't hear my MIDI devices. My book tells me what to look for and what options to select, but I just can't seem to find the right setting. The MIDI monitor shows my TD-6 (The Mac's Audio/MIDI options only had an option for the TD-7, so that's what I picked, and that's what DP displays - "TD-7") coming in on channel 10, and the XP-50 on channel 1. I can also see that DP can hear it, as it is showing up in the levels.

Where do I begin?

[emulatorloo]

I have a Roland XP-50 keyboard and a Roland TD-6 module with the V-drums connected to a USB E-MU 2x2 MIDI interface.

Derek -- you do not mention any audio connections from your synths. They need to be going to a mixer and an amplifier if they are not already.

==

[NitrouStang96]

Ok, here is how I currently have this set up:

--

TD-6 and XP-50 connected through MIDI to E-MU (no audio connections, just MIDI)

E-MU connected through USB to Mac

Mac audio out to receiver

Receiver to speakers

--

That said, I have an Alesis 8 Channel Firewire mixer I haven't figured out where to put into the mix, as well as a MidiVerb, NanoVerb, Pre-Amp, Amp, Dynamics Processor, and some other things... I had the Firewire mixer set up with the audio outs from the keyboard and drums connected, but then I was hearing some weird things - Drums were playing drums AND piano parts, piano sometimes played drums, too... I found a setting in my module that kept it from playing piano, but then DP didn't hear it... blah... so I disconnected everything except MIDI.



EDIT:
Oh, and thanks for the awesomely prompt response! I love this place already. Get ready for some more headache inducing posts from yours truly.

[emulatorloo]

The other thing that occurs to me --

Did you set everything up in Audio MIDI setup?

http://www.sonosphere.com/MusicSoftware ... MIDISetup/

--

Also you need to assign an output to your MIDI tracks --

In the dp track window, next to your MIDI track there is a column called "output" -- press there it is a pop up menu, it will show the synths you set up in AudioMidi setup.

(I think this is covered in the getting started manual)

----

I will be off the computer for the night -- hopefully somebody else can help you.

===

[NitrouStang96]

Indeed. I am pretty sure that is set up properly. The only thing that might not be correct is that I called my TD-6 a TD-7, because that was all that was available in the Roland drop-down.

[Dwetmaster]

If you play your XP50 manually do you hear sound? You didn't mention about having it connected to your receiver?

If you have a sequence playing in DP on MIDI track that are assigned to your synth module (XP & TD) can you read some MIDI activity on the synth modules?

[NitrouStang96]

I play my XP-50 and hear nothing. It is not hooked up to the receiver. I don't know how MIDI works, but I assume that if DP sees the module in MIDI Monitor when I play and shows the hits in the levels meter, that somehow it should be outputting to my speakers through the Mac's speaker out.

All I need to know is if this is how MIDI works, or if I should set my audio outputs to mixed headphones to hear while I am recording in a separate audio configuration, hit record in DP, and play with the MIDI sounds later.

I have 0 experience with MIDI, I've only ever recorded real instruments - mic'd drums and guitar amps.

[emulatorloo]

I play my XP-50 and hear nothing. It is not hooked up to the receiver. I don't know how MIDI works, but I assume that if DP sees the module in MIDI Monitor when I play and shows the hits in the levels meter, that somehow it should be outputting to my speakers through the Mac's speaker out.

If you are assigning your MIDI tracks to output to your XP then:

The audio outputs of your keyboard need to be hooked up in order for you to hear something.

The simplest set up would be to hook it to yr reciever -- or just listen on your headphones.

(then I think we are going to have to bring back the firewire mixer at some point -- which model do you have?)

(The XP will not play thru your mac speaker)

Do you hear anything when you hook up the headphone jacks?

---
ALSO -- you need to have two MIDI cables for the XP --

MIDI out of XP goes to MIDI IN of your emu interface
MIDI in of XP goes to MIDI out of your emu interface

------------------
I know you have a lot to read but this is a really helpful site for getting started -- read it in your spare time:

Tweakheadz Lab's
GUIDE to the
Home and Project Studio
http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm

maybe these three parts would help you immediately:

For NOOBS:
http://www.tweakheadz.com/laboratory/index.html

and then:

MIDI basics:
http://www.tweakheadz.com/how_to_get_st ... _MIDI.html

Audio basics:
http://www.tweakheadz.com/setting_up_yo ... o_card.htm

----
(Hey MOTU if you are out there can you bring back the TUTORIALS in the "getting started" manual?)

[bralston]

MIDI is not audio. Really, it is nothing more than on and off signals at a range of volumes for the various notes. You will never hear anything with MIDI when you are connected with MIDI alone. All MIDI does is trigger a device (in this case your synth), to create sound. So, you need to hook up the audio outs from that synth and run them back into one of the inputs on the audio interface for your MAC so you can hear the sounds MIDI is triggering. Select that audio interface as an input on an audio track in DP (or an aux track), and you will hear what the synth is spitting out when you trigger it with MIDI.

At the end you have a loop of sorts where the signal chain looks like this:

keyboard -> MIDI interface -> computer (DP will route MIDI to device you want it to go)-> synth -> audio outs produce sound -> back into computer through audio interface inputs - > Back into DP selecting input on an audio track to record, or the input on an aux track just to listen.

Everything in italics is a MIDI connection, everything in bold type is an audio connection.

[NitrouStang96]

Ok, that's what I was wondering based on the other replies. This is what I thought was happening:

XP-50 > E-MU > DP5 > (computer interprets MIDI into audio) > Receiver > Speakers

I saw the levels in DP bouncing while I was playing, so I assumed there was some audio interpretation somewhere. Instead, I will keep it hooked up like that, and add a separate configuration that doesn't use the computer or DP5 at all:

XP-50 > Mixer > Headphones

Then I will be able to hear what I am playing, and DP5 will be able to record what I am playing via MIDI. That brings me to my next question, though... My main reason for using DP5 is to record my girlfriend playing the XP-50 and me playing the V-Drums through the TD-6. I want to be able to 1) quantize the beats, and 2) substitute the TD-6 sounds with some new drum kit sounds.

1) Will that configuration work for that?

2) How will I sub in different sounds post-recording? I want to lay down my drum tracks, then listen to several different cymbals, toms, etc. in my already tracked song, and then select the ones I like. That's why I am doing this with MIDI now.

3) I don't know how MIDI works, but I know the TD-20 can output 16 separate MIDI channels at once, whereas my TD-6 can only output 1 MIDI channel at a time. Will this hinder me? I want to be able to move snare/bass/tom/cymbal hits independently of each other. Can I do this with the 1 MIDI channel out of my drum module?

Thanks for all the help!

[NitrouStang96]

I'm going to list my equipment and my plans, just in case it helps:

My plans are to
1) track the keyboard and drums,
2) fix mess-ups,
3) quantize,
4) substitute voices,
5) rinse, lather, and repeat til I have the song the way I want.
6) Record vocals.
7) Mix, Master, Burn.

My equipment consists of:
1) XP-50 keyboard,
2) TD-6 + V-drums,
3) female vocalist
4) USB E-MU 2x2
5) USB Roland 1x1
6) PowerMac G5 dual 2.5GHz 2GB RAM (PPC)
7) Alesis MultiMix8 Firewire
8 ) Various other hardware doohickeys I know nothing about, like pre-amps, MIDI devices, compressors + limiter dynamic thingmabobbers, etc...

That about rounds it out.

[emulatorloo]

XP-50 > E-MU > DP5 > (computer interprets MIDI into audio) > Receiver > Speakers

I saw the levels in DP bouncing while I was playing, so I assumed there was some audio interpretation somewhere. Instead, I will keep it hooked up like that, and add a separate configuration that doesn't use the computer or DP5 at all:

XP-50 > Mixer > Headphones

BE SURE YOU READ PAGES 11 to 14 in the DP "GETTING STARTED" manual (the thin one)

You also need to go MIDI OUT from the EMU to MIDI IN of the XP-50

In this case, your XP is what interprets MIDI data into audio

SO XP MIDI OUT ----- EMU MIDI IN

EMU MIDI OUT ------- XP MIDI IN

(see the pix on page 13 of "Getting Started"

(all of this needs to be set up in Audio/MIDI set up for DP to see it -- see that link from above:

http://www.sonosphere.com/MusicSoftware ... MIDISetup/



Then you will need to assign the output of your MIDI tracks in DP to the XP



-----

===

I really recommend that you sit down and spend some time reading that website I linked to earlier. It seems like you need to get some basic concepts down, and really that site will help a TON!!!!

Tweakheadz Lab's
GUIDE to the
Home and Project Studio

http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm

Go read the first three sections

-- For Noobs
http://www.tweakheadz.com/laboratory/index.html

-- MIDI Basics
http://www.tweakheadz.com/how_to_get_st ... _MIDI.html

-- Audio Basics
http://www.tweakheadz.com/setting_up_yo ... o_card.htm

=========

Also real simple this page on MIDI:

http://www.leftandwrite.com/brian/music ... o_MIDI.htm

======

[Spikey Horse]

Also the back of your vdrums manual (like all roland manuals) should have clear MIDI set up guides with diagrams etc + info on the right vdrum MIDI settings - 'GM mode' and so on....

[NitrouStang96]

I already glanced at all of those links, but I'll try to read more in depth tomorrow morning. I think I understand the basic concept, now, but I now just need to find out how to accomplish what I want with the gear that I have, and perhaps buy whatever gear I am missing.

I don't know the optimal way to hook up what I have to do what I want. I think that's what I'm trying to say

[emulatorloo]

It sounds like you have all the gear you need to do what you want to do.

The only thing I don't see on your list is a microphone.

But I bet you have one.

Where did you buy this gear -- esp the mixer and DP? Maybe they could help you with optimum set up -- although there are some good examples in the tweakhead Guide to home studio.

-----

At any rate if it were me, I would take it slow and in stages.

Start with a simple MIDI only set up as we have discussed and learn how to sequence in DP.

That may mean keeping your XP manual handy as well as the one for DP. Because you will want to set that XP-50 up for multitimbral MIDI playback, etc.

Then add in recording audio.

BEST OF LUCK 00 you will have a great time once you get the hang of it.