Workflow DP & Logic Pro 8

waxman · Post by **waxman** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:24 pm

when you import to Logic if you want to change tempo's you need to LOCK ALL REGIONS TO SMPTE...

in the regions menu... then you can unlock them if you want to later.

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:53 am

flashgerkin wrote:Exporting a L8 song with MIDI and audio.
Save MIDI as SMF
1. Select all.
2. The Logic manual list several steps to complete before the export to SMF. Among them is: Region>Merge>Regions per Tracks. This is really important if there are, say 4 MIDI regions (MIDI data blocks in DP terms) i.e. bass 1, bass 2, etc. on that bass track. All regions will end up on the same track in DP. This is good. Very good! If you don't do this, then each region ends up on a separate track. So if the song has 16 MIDI tracks, each with say, 4 or more regions, then you end up with a bunch of extra tracks. No good. Believe me!
3. If this message appears: "There are some events before position 1.1.1.1. Move all selected, or put all Upbeats to position 1.1.1.1.? ( Two button appear: Upbeat, and Move All). The best choice to have all MIDI tracks end up in DP in their original position is "Upbeats". (The problem I had last night was I picked Move All since that was the default recommendation).
4. Open the SMF in DP.
5. Assign MIDI tracks to VI.

OMF
No problems here. Open the OMF file in DP, name it, save it.
Then "Load" the soundbites from that file into the DP MIDI file.
Create matching mono and stereo tracks, then copy and paste audio from the Chunks window.
Pretty amazing.

Regarding the tempo value, opening the SMF already establishes the correct tempo.

This concludes experimentation for this evening.

A concurrence:

Worked on setting up a beat map in L8-- 168 measures, 93 changes of meter. Long story.

Saved MIDI as SMF
Saved project as OMF
Tempo and Meter maps appeared in DP's conductor track no prob.
Imported audio from L8 folder, lined it up @ 1|1|000

I sat there with my bare face hanging out watching this thing work flawlessly. Clicks were tight as a drum with audio.

Beat mapping in L8 was more intuitive than I thought it would be.

What I want to do now is to try the same thing starting in DP with Adjust Beats and then port everything back the other way to L8. I suspect that I'll have to put in the entire meter map before I do anything else. Then, I'll deal with beat click patterns for odd meter transitions like 7/8 to 4/4. In L8, I could change the meters almost on the fly as I reconciled audio beats with the timeline. What I like about this is that I didn't *have to* write out a meter map guide by hand first. (Actually, I wrote one out anyway, but never had to refer to it.) I could just assess and adjust metric needs on a bar-by-bar basis which helped refine alignment of audio beats to clicks.

Okay, so it begins again with DP. This multi turf approach is fun so far.

Yiannis · Post by **Yiannis** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:12 am

if there is MIDI you can export smf including tempo data.

If there is only AUDIO how do you achieve that?

pcm · Post by **pcm** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:25 pm

Yiannis wrote:if there is MIDI you can export smf including tempo data.

If there is only AUDIO how do you achieve that?

I export out of DP as SMF with no MIDI present with no problems. I mainly do it to move my markers into Pro Tools, but it takes the tempo as well.

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:40 pm

Yiannis wrote:If there is only AUDIO how do you achieve that?

You can either bounce the audio to the format of choice or you can save the project as an OMF.

OMF ports audio and video.

wvandyck · Post by **wvandyck** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:20 pm

Frodo wrote:A concurrence:

Worked on setting up a beat map in L8-- 168 measures, 93 changes of meter. Long story.

Saved MIDI as SMF
Saved project as OMF
Tempo and Meter maps appeared in DP's conductor track no prob.
Imported audio from L8 folder, lined it up @ 1|1|000

I sat there with my bare face hanging out watching this thing work flawlessly. Clicks were tight as a drum with audio.

Beat mapping in L8 was more intuitive than I thought it would be.

What I want to do now is to try the same thing starting in DP with Adjust Beats and then port everything back the other way to L8. I suspect that I'll have to put in the entire meter map before I do anything else. Then, I'll deal with beat click patterns for odd meter transitions like 7/8 to 4/4. In L8, I could change the meters almost on the fly as I reconciled audio beats with the timeline. What I like about this is that I didn't *have to* write out a meter map guide by hand first. (Actually, I wrote one out anyway, but never had to refer to it.) I could just assess and adjust metric needs on a bar-by-bar basis which helped refine alignment of audio beats to clicks.

Okay, so it begins again with DP. This multi turf approach is fun so far.

Your beat map and 93 tempo changes must surely be as rigourous a test as they come.

Your amazement resonates.

So far, my experience of going from Logic to DP has worked amazingly well. (See next reply).

The DP to L8 experience is next. At this point, transferring files form from L8 to DP seems to be very reliable . This is really awesome because I anticipate an L8 to DP work flow.

Looking forward to your DP to L8 reports.
Cheers.

wvandyck · Post by **wvandyck** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:01 pm

More L8 to DP notes.

OMF
Changing the DP tempo to the original value (in Logic) aligns the grid to the beats with no ill effects.

The OMF file I transferred (12 tracks of audio) was made up of small regions at various locations in the song. (I did not make the regions into one long audio file per track to line up at 1/1/0.)

The OMF file opened up in DP with all soundbites in their correct location throughout the song.

AAF
I used the L8 demo song "Shiney Toy Guns" for the AAF transfer experiment. This song has 65 tracks of audio. (38 tracks is my largest project to date.) Again, all of the scattered audio regions opened up in DP at their correct location. All tracks and mixer channels were labeled about 99.5 accurately. (An occasional glyph character on a few track names).

The effects were not rendered, just the audio.
But, to address pcm's question, AAF did indeed export automation.

OMF did not.

So right now, AAF is looking like the export format of choice for L8 to DP transfers.

Next: DP to L8.

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:58 pm

One of the things I like about Logic is how quickly I can boot it and start recording an idea at the piano keyboard. (well... Kurzweil 2600 with 88 keys FEELS like a piano to me, anyway) I've never in 20 years been able to get to work in DP that quickly. There's always some setup. Logic seems "ready to go." Granted, you can have your templates set up in DP to reduce the time, but even so, I don't feel like I'm really getting things underway as quickly as in Logic.

I've taken my improvs from Logic, saved as SMF, and opened them in DP with everything intact. Very nice way of working. When I improvise, I screw up a lot, so as long as I do it over until I get it right, I can still use it. In DP I just select the screwups, hit Command-J (Snip), and keep on going to the next one. In an hour or two, I've got a usable track, ready for beat mapping, then ready for arranging.

Shooshie

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:03 pm

Shooshie wrote:One of the things I like about Logic is how quickly I can boot it and start recording an idea at the piano keyboard. (well... Kurzweil 2600 with 88 keys FEELS like a piano to me, anyway) I've never in 20 years been able to get to work in DP that quickly. There's always some setup. Logic seems "ready to go." Granted, you can have your templates set up in DP to reduce the time, but even so, I don't feel like I'm really getting things underway as quickly as in Logic.

A while back in one of the suggestion threads we were chatting about some sort of setup wizard for DP. That certainly helps shave some startup time in L8, but there does seem to be less clicking in the earlier stages of using L8. I like it as a front end tool so far.

Also, are there any further reports on saving VI presets within DP (plugin window) as opposed/in addition to doing so within the VI itself? Now that you're a "doubler", having the VI preset facilitates use of that same setup with two different DAWs

Shooshie wrote: I've taken my improvs from Logic, saved as SMF, and opened them in DP with everything intact. Very nice way of working. When I improvise, I screw up a lot, so as long as I do it over until I get it right, I can still use it. In DP I just select the screwups, hit Command-J (Snip), and keep on going to the next one. In an hour or two, I've got a usable track, ready for beat mapping, then ready for arranging.

Shooshie

The sun is singing
The birds are shining
All deities are in their respective heavens
And all is once again right with the world.

Akai96 · Post by **Akai96** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:08 am

However I still consider DP my goto DAW... Steve Jobs made a nice style pack to go with DP. So any DP guys that are feeling threatened by LOGIC... Forget about it. Logic has to catch up with DP. I can do a project without L8. I would not want to do it with out DP...

DP WINS...

Amen,and I can testify to that!

waxman · Post by **waxman** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:16 am

But the best part is I can double... and that is as good as it gets... Logic is so easy and stable. DP is so familiar.

Yiannis · Post by **Yiannis** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:20 am

well, guys I see that you all have no problem importing OMF inti Logic!

What an I missing here?

Still audio doesn't play in time with the songs tempo.Just plays right if i live it to 120 bpm.

I have open a SMF with logic and tempo is there with MIDI playing correctly.
put in audio via OMF and I get again a mess

What Ia am doing wrong?

Yiannis · Post by **Yiannis** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:02 am

I am sorry for double posting but problem solved.

here is the story.

My files are 24/48.

Logic default template is set to 44.1khz.
So if you open a 48khz file my dragging it into logic icon you will get my mess no matter you do (I think so)

What I did is:

open a new file in Logic.
Change SR to 48khz.
Import OMF
Change tempo to the desired.
Everything plays now smooth

pcm · Post by **pcm** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:15 am

This technique of switching back and forth is very interesting. Kinda reminds me of my early experience with DP in the late nineties. My studio was primarily 2" tape and a large format console. We had adats for those clients who didn't want to fork over the bucks for tape. But I was bugged that I couldn't edit adat performances like I could cut tape, so I bought a 2408 and DP specifically for this purpose. I'd fly in the sessions, do my editing, and then fly back. Then I got Autotune. I'd fly in vocals, edit them, and fly them back. While in DP, I'd play around with the effects and such. After a while, some projects didn't get flown back, they stayed in DP. After a year or two, the DAW moved into the main room, and started taking over. You can guess the rest.

So, my question is, after you guys start stuff in Logic, how long is it going to take until you find the pros and cons tip the other way? To my thinking, hearing all this talk from DP users about "integrating" Logic into their workflow is very telling.

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:42 pm

pcm wrote:So, my question is, after you guys start stuff in Logic, how long is it going to take until you find the pros and cons tip the other way? To my thinking, hearing all this talk from DP users about "integrating" Logic into their workflow is very telling.

Of what, that everyone will eventually switch completely to Logic? I doubt that. In essence by dumping L8 on the market by slashing the price in half, a lot of people couldn't resist having both. The pros and cons will tip the other way, only if every single advantage DP retains is somehow co-opted by Logic, which I doubt.