DP's response to Logic 8?

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Shooshie
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Re: DP's response to Logic 8?

Post by Shooshie »

zaster wrote:
Shooshie wrote:7) Logic's ability to edit multiple MIDI tracks in one window is handicapped by a missing menu item (documented in the manual, but non-existent in the app) in Logic Studio 8. This actually should go up there with #2, I guess.
I tried to tell you this one in the other thread, perhaps i articulated poorly. My guess is the menu item was an error in the manual. You don't need it. Select overlapping regions on 2 different tracks and they will be "multiply-viewed"/overlayed in the Piano Roll. (With the unfortunate exception of controller data.) If you have different colors assigned to the regions I think you can get the color-coded effect ala DP. But then you probably have to turn off that "velocity coloring" somewhere...
I also learned that, zaster, and I learned how to make each track a separate color. But I had trouble finding consistency there. Sometimes the other tracks would go away. Sometimes they wouldn't. It's not simple like DP's. The missing menu item would actually be very helpful.

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zaster
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Re: DP's response to Logic 8?

Post by zaster »

Shooshie wrote:I also learned that, zaster, and I learned how to make each track a separate color. But I had trouble finding consistency there. Sometimes the other tracks would go away. Sometimes they wouldn't. It's not simple like DP's. The missing menu item would actually be very helpful.
Not if it didn't do anything to improve on what you've outlined here! :lol:

My guess is they had it in L7 and got rid of it in favor of having it "on" by default. So this could be all they got! But I only speculate...
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Post by waxman »

Hi Kubi,

Yeah I tried importing OMF from a Sonar and a older DP project in 5.11 and in 5.12... I don't know what is up but at the time a thread was going and it was happening to everyone. I gave up and used the Dave Polich method. He calls it Universal import. Just Wave files at 000 and a SMF file.

If you have some magic that I don't know about for getting OMF files in it would save me a lot of time and FTP space.
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Post by waxman »

Yeah Logic does OMF so I will try one later tonight and let you know...
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Aramis
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Post by Aramis »

Let say I would like to save all the L8 project to be open on a different Computer with L8 .

I can copy a specific folder just like DP right ?
So , exporting the omf file inthere should do it too .

Aramis

waxman wrote:Yeah Logic does OMF so I will try one later tonight and let you know...
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Re: DP's response to Logic 8?

Post by Mr. Quimper »

@ Shooshie:

Great response; I'm also thinking of eventually going the route of academia, which is why I'm bothering to get an M.F.A. at the moment, but I'd also like to get a large dose of "real-world" experience before I ever think of setting foot into a classroom. Also, if the "real world" gets too tough, teaching is always a nice back-up to have. :P

I'm sorry to hear that you've had difficulty getting back into academia. I guess it all depends on the institution as much as your qualifications. At least at my school, we do try to find competent professors with extensive real-world eperience ( which helps justify how rediculously expensive it is here :lol: I'll owe over 110,000 just for the 2-year masters program when all's said and done ).

In any case, despite my negative comments, I do think we have an excellent program here, just some parts of the faculty are more "in-tune" with the professional world than others, and have different specialties. We have quite a few faculty members that balance their academic lives with professional careers, taking time off frequently to work on professional projects. In the case of the faculty member who made the comments I'd posted, he's the chair of the department and has the most experience in academia; however, he is also a world-class trumpet player and gigs constantly outside of class, he just has less experience on the production end of things, so I can forgive his lack of insight into the current state of the DAW world.

I suppose it's difficult to fault those who have to spend so much time teaching others; it seems inevitable that they'll be somewhat behind professional trends, given the nature of their work.


In any case, sorry for going WAAY off topic. :lol:
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Post by sdfalk »

I exported a session from DP 5.12 as an OMF and it opened fine in Logic 8
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zaster
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Post by zaster »

sdfalk wrote:I exported a session from DP 5.12 as an OMF and it opened fine in Logic 8
Can you elaborate on what makes it over? Time stamps? Volume/Pan automation?
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Post by sdfalk »

zaster wrote:
sdfalk wrote:I exported a session from DP 5.12 as an OMF and it opened fine in Logic 8
Can you elaborate on what makes it over? Time stamps? Volume/Pan automation?
Volume and Pan automation for sure.
Time stamps...not so sure
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Re: DP's Response to Logic 8

Post by kschind »

I don't post very often on this board, but I do read it quite often. This topic is near and dear enough to my current situation to elicit a response, however...

I actually do teach electronic music classes (two levels) and I have always used DP in these classes. A couple of years ago, I added a couple of GarageBand assignments for the intro class because it's such an easy way to introduce sequencing, but the rest of that class and the entire advanced class is done with DP. I have personally used DP (and Performer) since '89 (first at North Texas--hey, Shooshie! I never knew I had a connection to you...), and would never dream of using anything else. I did have to teach a course at another school several years ago using a pre-Apple version of Logic, though, and it was such a bad experience, I never even considered using Logic again. Until Logic 8.

So, feeling like I should at least check it out, I ordered a copy of LE8 to see just how much it has improved. I spent this weekend doing just that. I must say that I am impressed with it's ease of use--especially for an overall beginner and especially compared to previous versions. For someone that knows DP quite well, of course, I have to relearn some things, but overall, it's pretty simple to pick up. For this reason alone, I might consider switching to Logic Express for my electronic music classes, just because--after years of teaching it--DP is sometimes very difficult for students to learn (a lot of non-music majors take the intro class). Logic is so similar to GarageBand, it would be easy for students to make the transition.

I am, however, definitely going to wait to see what MOTU does with the next version of DP. Even then, I'm not convinced that I will necessarily switch my lab over at that point.

Students constantly ask my opinion about software and hardware. If I've used it thoroughly enough, I give them my honest opinion. I am always careful, however, not to throw around the "I'm an expert and here's the way things are" tone during these discussions (because I certainly don't know everything there is to know, that's for sure!). As I tell my students, different apps and hardware are good for different needs and you have to use what works for you and what you are comfortable using. I was NOT comfortable using Logic in the past, but now I am. I still doubt I will change my personal use of DP, however; I'm just too comfortable using it. For the same reason, we will probably continue to use ProTools in our studio recording classes, even though DP and Logic could certainly do the job there. Our ProTools instructors are just too comfortable using it to switch so quickly, if ever.

I do know one thing: I don't ever want my audio technology program to be a "one-app-does-it-all" program. I think it is in the students' best interest to see how various DAWs and other apps function so they can compare them for themselves. This ulitmately will help the students more, whether they eventually create their own studio and buy the gear themselves, or end up working for someone else and use whatever they have.

Sorry this is a bit long-winded. I just wanted one of the "superior professor types" :wink: to express the opposite opinion: I would never tell my students that anything is "doomed." To me, that is beyond arrogance; it's silly at best and irresponsible to the students' education at worst.
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Post by Shooshie »

Very nice post, kschind! I should take this opportunity to backtrack a little and to say that I was generalizing in the worst of ways in my previous post. I know LOTS of professors who are exemplary musicians, and whose opinions I would trust on just about anything. There are definitely two sides to academia. The one side is why we keep going back to school... because there are people who genuinely love learning, and love to convey that spirit to others.

The other side of academia is the bureaucratic spirit (or lack of spirit) which has the effect of throwing a wet blanket on an inquisitive mind. We all know examples of both sides; I needn't offer any proof.

But I'm always thrilled to return to music schools and talk to people. I have some of my best conversations in such environments. And it's true enough that many professionals DO make the crossover to academia, and do it well. If I had the motivation to get that final degree (and the willingness to pay such astronomical rates for it), I'd probably be able to do the same. I just don't crave a Ph.D. these days.

You're in the Phoenix area? We have TWO connections, then. I almost taught Digital Performer at Scottsdale Community College back in 1997. I was in discussion with them at their request, and actually got a certificate from the State of Arizona that enabled me to do it. My life changed, and I ended up coming back to Dallas, so it did not happen. But they had a wonderful facility, including a room full of about 24 Kurtzweil 2500's, all networked to the studio across the hall, I believe. At least some of them were, anyway. I was excited about having such a studio to work with. I was also loosely connected to Chaton Studios, back when it was still under the original ownership, being a close friend of that family. (Still have a coffee mug that says "Chaton" on it)

I hope my other post did not portray me as anti-academia, or as feeling superior to professors. That's simply not the case. My gripe is only with the bureaucratic side of academia that often judges people and their work against the most bizarre and arbitrary of standards in a self-serving way. Such bureaucrats often try to hire inferior staff to make themselves feel more important. Fortunately, they are not the only people in academia, and eventually the system seems to acquire a balance.

The "Digital Performer is irrelevant, and Pro Tools is the only standard we need be concerned with" attitude of the administration at the college of the original posters in this thread brought back painful memories of that negative side of academia that I never was able to tolerate, and that's where my mind was focused when I wrote that message.

We know that DP and Logic both are quite relevant, and that DP may have only a niche in the market, but it's a very competent and productive niche. It's the preferred tool of a lot of highly professional people! :) (including professors! ;))

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Re: DP's Response to Logic 8

Post by billf »

kschind wrote:Sorry this is a bit long-winded. I just wanted one of the "superior professor types" :wink: to express the opposite opinion: I would never tell my students that anything is "doomed." To me, that is beyond arrogance; it's silly at best and irresponsible to the students' education at worst.
Hi kschind,

Great post. I absolutely agree with what you've espoused in your post. Keep up the good work. 8)
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Post by kschind »

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that anyone here (Shooshie or otherwise) was being "unfair" toward those in academia (as one of them, I certainly didn't feel attacked in any way). We all make generalizations such as these, like "all politicians are crooks," etc., etc. without fully meaning it--I hope! There are obviously many in academia that DO think they know all of the answers, but I think most just want to share their knowledge with interested students with the hope that it somehow enhances their lives. (More than anything else, though, I do get very tired of comments--not necessarily here--that those in higher ed are trying to corrupt students somehow! Uh, no, most of us are just happy when/if students have ANY original thoughts. But that's another topic... :D ).

Shooshie, I'm actually the director for the music program at Phoenix College (not to be confused with University of Phoenix), so I know Scottsdale CC quite well, too. For those that don't know (and care), of the ten schools in the Maricopa Community College System, seven have music programs and most have either established "Audio Technology" programs (with associate's degrees) or are trying to build up such a program. It's pretty cool because this program is considered workforce development (aka: vocational) so instructors can be from both the academic and/or professional worlds (we have both at PC). Most of the schools here use DP and ProTools. I'm not sure if anyone is using Logic--or considering switching. We also have the Conservatory of Recording Arts in the Phoenix area, of course, and I believe they are big into Logic, offering a certification program in it and ProTools.

It's certainly possible some instructors in the area have a "I-know-it-all-and-this-is/will be-the-only-industry-standard" attitude, but I know they don't teach at my school! :wink:
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Post by Shooshie »

Phoenix is one of the enlightened cities in this country. They actually spend money on music programs. It's really quite something that they classify it as vocational. Where I live, music fall under the category of "football." (marching bands, that is) The idea of music as a vocation would be laughable to most adminstrators in this area. (wups... there I go generalizing again! :D)

Great to hear from you, kschind!

Shooshie
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Post by giles117 »

Where I am originally from, music was treated as a vocation (when I was a kid. LOL) Now, it's something you may be lucky to get. And they wonder why the state of Popular music is so poor.
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