L8 Whoa!

[PeterMcCStrat]

YIKES!!! No drawing velocity shapes? Are you sure? I can't do this! If that's the way Logic works, I may have to cancel my order, because I literally do all my phrasing that way. Well, all that doesn't get played in the way I want it.

No- sorry that's not what I was saying! You can draw velocity shapes, it works pretty close to how we have it (although I didn't see any shaper tools like we have for drawing, just straight lines)- what I was saying is the velocity bars are sideways. Like so:

For me it kills the more intuitive contour created by the "mountains and valleys" of the velocity bars seen over the timeline. Am I being crazy or does anyone out there know what I'm saying?

Dude,

The black line INSIDE the horizontal bar is the Velocity value,
you can't be serious that the microscopic invisible lines with a tiny pin dot like DP's MIDI velocity is easy to use,.. for real.

Drag with velocity tool up or down,.. and you will actually HEAR the velocity,. unlike Dp where you have to guess if it's the Velocity that you want. not being able to hear the edit in DP,. sucks,... don't you think?

whatever,.

PM

[Shooshie]

Peter,

Can you explain the horizontal orange lines in that picture above?

Also, the velocity tics in the MIDI Edit Window in DP are quite easy to use. Exceedingly so, in my opinion, with all the different ways of using them. I'm surprised you hadn't learned that by now. Furthermore, there are two methods of instantly hearing the note you just edited in DP. Three, if you count playing it in context with the music. But I won't waste your time explaining the several methods that make it all so easy. I must ask, though, whether it is possible to tell us these things about Logic without the patronizing tone toward DP users. After all, you keep revealing your lack of knowledge of DP, which puts you in a weak position to be making these comparisons. But the information is very useful and appreciated; it would just be more palatable without the inaccurate DP references! No offense intended; I'm just promoting a balanced, academic discussion so that we can continue to do this without the gradual escalation and division that often accompanies such splits.

So, once more, I repeat; would you please explain the horizontal orange lines?

Shooshie

[monkey man]

Anyone try the spectrum analyzer for noise reduction yet? It is the main reason I would buy L8 if it works. (Same price as Sound Soap Pro!)

Unbelievable.
Same here, Mike, provided of course DP brings us some beefed up FX and instruments soon.
This is also the main reason I bought PowerCore, but I'll be selling it as it's been nothing but trouble.
She's just gotta come through with these goods; the thought of crossing over or even running both apps boggles my mind and messes wit' mah heart.

Old school again... I think they used to call it "discipline" or something like that...

That's mah boi!

I've got a sinking feeling that I'm not going to like Logic at all.
This has me seriously thinking about cancelling my order.

So it looks like you and James and I will keep UNation going until the others discover all the hidden features of L8? Heck, we can use the $1500 bucks we save to do Vegas!

I'll help too, Magilla.

Room in the boot for the Vegas trip?

Also, interestingly, it has a pretty big buffer for this data, way larger than the typical last "take". Wonder where all that other stuff ends up, and if there's a way to access it in case, say, you wanted to hear something you did 10 minutes ago.

It'd have to be a "rolling" buffer, zaster.
By this I mean that once it's filled, any new information received would displace the oldest data - marble in, marble out, so to speak.
Further, MIDI data takes up very little space.

I'd say at a guess that you'd be able to set the cutoff point to include the last x minutes.
At least, you should be able to, but as I said, MIDI data is tiny, so in theory at least the entire session could be recorded.

A simple timeline such as that which we see in DP's undo history would do the trick.

[builder]

Shoosh...

From my brief usage of LP It seems that you can only draw velocities with a stright pencil line. The velocities of the notes in that range are then spread out evenly between your two mouse clicks.....

The other controls can be drawn as you would expect...

I do miss the shapes DP offers....
Oh Well

I did make a video of what it looks like for you.

http://web.mac.com/craigory623/Music/Logic.html

You need to give it about 30 secs to load

[zaster]

Can you explain the horizontal orange lines in that picture above?

Shooshie-
It's like this: The hoizontal orange lines are the equivalent of the velocity bars in DP's controller lanes. They are going from the begining of the note to it's end horizontally, and the height is velocity. What Peter is referring to, also in the picture, but way harder to make out, is that inside each MIDI note in the Roll part, there is a black horizontal line you can drag left to right to also change the velocity. The longer the line, the higher the velocity.

P.S. I don't know why the orange bars aren't lined up where they should be- I grabbed this screenshot form the pdf, not being in front of Logic. I hadn't even thought about that: just wanted to show you the style of bars. It's strange though- hmm? I've made it to about page 60 of the manual, I'll let you know soon!

[zaster]

It'd have to be a "rolling" buffer, zaster.
By this I mean that once it's filled, any new information received would displace the oldest data - marble in, marble out, so to speak.
Further, MIDI data takes up very little space.

I'd say at a guess that you'd be able to set the cutoff point to include the last x minutes.
At least, you should be able to, but as I said, MIDI data is tiny, so in theory at least the entire session could be recorded.

A simple timeline such as that which we see in DP's undo history would do the trick.

There is a number displayed that counts down backwards as you play, indicating the filling up of the buffer. The number is high (9999999, say) and goes down very slowly, a dozen single digits at a time. So I'm saying, this is all "somewhere", it would be cool if you could access it. I haven't noticed if it resets at some point, such as when stopping and starting the file. They do have an identical Undo History, but this aspect, being not a user command, but the general "listening" behavior of the application, is not affected by undo/redo.

[Mr. Quimper]

Also, interestingly, it has a pretty big buffer for this data, way larger than the typical last "take". Wonder where all that other stuff ends up, and if there's a way to access it in case, say, you wanted to hear something you did 10 minutes ago.

It'd be awesome if it was integrated with 10.5's Time Machine!

[PeterMcCStrat]

Peter,

Can you explain the horizontal orange lines in that picture above?

Also, the velocity tics in the MIDI Edit Window in DP are quite easy to use. Exceedingly so, in my opinion, with all the different ways of using them. I'm surprised you hadn't learned that by now. Furthermore, there are two methods of instantly hearing the note you just edited in DP. Three, if you count playing it in context with the music. But I won't waste your time explaining the several methods that make it all so easy. I must ask, though, whether it is possible to tell us these things about Logic without the patronizing tone toward DP users. After all, you keep revealing your lack of knowledge of DP, which puts you in a weak position to be making these comparisons. But the information is very useful and appreciated; it would just be more palatable without the inaccurate DP references! No offense intended; I'm just promoting a balanced, academic discussion so that we can continue to do this without the gradual escalation and division that often accompanies such splits.

So, once more, I repeat; would you please explain the horizontal orange lines?

Shooshie

Sorry Shoosh,.. for the attitude,.. my last post was after getting in from a gig last night,.. I had a few in me....

A picture is worth a 1000 words,.. here are 4 screen shots,..of Velocity edit scenes,.. I'll explain. bear with me I've only had Logic a week.

Ok, Pic 1-
Tiny gray bars represent the notes in the highlighted track above.
To show you,. I have it set as the smallest bar size,... (notice the parameter table to the left,. it says " pen width - 1"
thats the skinniest setting

But you swipe the grid and edit the Velocity and hear the change in realtime.

PIC 2- Same track, but I've changed the view now to include the Length of the note as well,.. on the left it says ("Note Length")
notice the long white bar is indicating the held note.
goes without saying in eithe pic 1 or 2 r,.. the height of the bar is the V value

PICs 3 & 4.

Are 2 views of me about to edit the notes in the Piano roll,
unlike the Hyper editor,. the height is not shown here,.. per say,.
If you look, you see a small black bar inside the colored bar, this is the velocity.
This is a quick editor, agin the sound is changed in realtime as you edit the notes

I haven't used the drum edit view yet,.so can't show it.

PICs 1&2, are " hyper edit" any parameter / MIDI CC you can think of can be set in it.

To answer your question,.
I have no idea what the Orange bars are ?,.. I don't have them.

Hope this is helpful?

BTW, My griping was that I could never HEAR the notes WHILE you where changing(realtime) in DP as I was changing the velocity,, it was guessing to me,..
than again, I'm no power user,... obviously.

Sorry if I bashed on DP too bad,.. it's all good shoosh,.

Best-
Peter

www.petermccarthy.net/Picture1.png
www.petermccarthy.net/Picture2.png
www.petermccarthy.net/Picture3.png
www.petermccarthy.net/Picture4.png

[wvandyck]

Having acquired blood-shot eyes over the past few days I've reached a few conclusions:
1. Cosmetics: DP's gui is a real class act. Very easy on the eyes (except for text in the T.O. which is easily overcome with the Control-scroll wheel trick).

Logic's interface looks like some Windows app. The color scheme and interface design are just not appealing to me.

I realize that this is a very subjective point and has nothing to do with the functionaliy of Logic. But if one is going to stare at an app on the screen for any duration, then sex appeal cannot be dismissed

2. Efficiency: What little I've skimmed over the years has always pointed to Logic's amazing cpu efficiency. For those in highly competitive production houses, efficiency is a must for survival.

My studio is...personal, with some projects from a small circle of locals. So I don't perceive any efficiency issues, especial the Mac Pro. However, Shooshie mentions something about MAS being layered on top of Core Audio which may be a source of latency. Common business sense that this has to be addressed for survivals sake.

3. The included VIs: I haven't knowingly listened to any of the Logic stuff. But the included array is very comprehensive. Certainly much more than a starter set.

As one who does not have the tolerance for synth programming, DPs included devices are quite useful. I did take an existing Bassline preset to tweak it into 3 flavors of fingered bass. Not very original, but I like the buttery warmth versus the aggressive transient attacks. I would say that the included VIs are a good starter set.

It seems like most DP users understood the logic of MOTU offering a solid work station at a lower cost, to let the user spend their money on 3rd party VIs. How many of Logics VIs would a symphonic-type use? Of course Logics new price puts MOTU in a tough spot.

4.Included processors: What really grabs my attention with Logic is the included Match EQ (I have Firium or FUqualizer or whatever), Multimeter very useful for making mix/mastering decisions (I use InspectorXL), Space Designer (TC has me covered. Even UAD).

It was very progressive of MOTU to add the multiband compressor years ago, but I think we need an updated version. On the otherhand, I frequently use MWLimiter despite having other options. As I'm covered in plastic, I have to say the DPs verbs are pretty bad. Yes one can coax useable sounds out of them, but this is another class of processor that badly needs to updated.

5. Cost: My head is still spinning three days after learning about the current cost of Logic. Hence, the blood-shot eyes.

This totally changes the landscape. First time purchasers of DAW may not take very long to think this through$$$

Long-time users of DP with added 3rd party enhancements have may not have any real reason to switch. Adding Logic into the fold has been mentioned several times. But I gotta tell ya, with age comes a need to streamline things for efficiency sake. Learning a new DAW every 6 months is mental/cognitive energy drain. From my personal perspective, Narrow + deep = solid efficiency. Wide + diffuse, superficial = master on none. Folks who use several programs with high frequency reach the point of efficiency.

Apple does have my attention

[zaster]

I have no idea what the Orange bars are ?,.. I don't have them.

In your picture 3, if you go to that little triangle drop down at the top of the controller lane, at the left, just below the keyboard image, you can select what kind of controller info you want to see in that area (which is blank in your image, probably cause you haven't picked anything to view). When you choose velocities you get the orange bars. You can also just click that button that looks just like those bars, right at the bottom of that strip, above the word "mixer" in your image.

Good to know you can skinny the width of those bars in the Hyperview. Now I'll just assume you can boost the height resolution so you can actually make use of that: back to the manual...

[blue]

Logic's interface looks like some Windows app.

Really? I would have agreed had you said L7 and previous versions, but this new version looks unified, clean and easy to read to me. It looks a lot like the other Pro apps Apple has put out.

[PeterMcCStrat]

Shoosie,

Thanks to Zasters help,.. this is another screen shot for you.

The slashes are the notes above,.. dragging them up / dwon is another way to edit them,, a help tag (shown in pic) pops up to show the position and velocity as you work,...

cool,. thanks zaster.

PM

www.petermccarthy.net/Picture5.png

[wvandyck]

Logic's interface looks like some Windows app.

Really? I would have agreed had you said L7 and previous versions, but this new version looks unified, clean and easy to read to me. It looks a lot like the other Pro apps Apple has put out.

It does looks too drab to me. Again, a very subjective statement.
I'll have to explore the options for customizing it's appearance.

Maybe I was looking at L7 and generalizing. These screen shots are lighter.
http://logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=14026

L8 has moved to the top of my short list.

[zaster]

I must say- I've read like 30 manuals in the last 6 months, but I haven't felt this oppressively bored by one in years. I'm just like in a coma...

[jlaudon]

Just a question - can you also have separate windows than the consolidated window in L8? Once the mixer is in view, there's not much room for anyhting else except on a 30" monitor. Thx.