L8 Whoa!

ba_hill · Post by **ba_hill** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:22 pm

Here is a screen shot of a MIDI track in the upper pane and the Hyper Editor zoomed in to the velocity in the lower pane.

Brian

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:36 pm

I can't make out what's going on in that picture, but I'm guessing that there is no verticle relationship between the lower pane and the upper pane; is that right? I sure don't see any.

And is that narrow band the best you can do for editing velocities? Is that band even 128 pixels tall? How do you edit precise velocity values?

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:38 pm

I've got a sinking feeling that I'm not going to like Logic at all.

This has me seriously thinking about cancelling my order.

blue · Post by **blue** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:17 pm

Shooshie, if you look at the bottom right corner you'll see a slider for scaling the controller display. Also, from the look of it, the top pane is Logic's equivilent of the TO (the Arrange Page) while the bottom is like our GE, only with notes filtered out. Unless they completely changed the Hyperedit window (bottom pane here), you can view notes with their correct verticle relationship to velocity/controllers all in one pane.

crufty · Post by **crufty** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:32 pm

PeterMcCStrat wrote:L8 has folders too.

Not really (as far as I can tell). L8 is quite lacking in this area imho...

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:37 pm

Shooshie wrote:I've got a sinking feeling that I'm not going to like Logic at all.

This has me seriously thinking about cancelling my order.

So it looks like you and James and I will keep UNation going until the others discover all the hidden features of L8? Heck, we can use the $1500 bucks we save to do Vegas!

dougieb · Post by **dougieb** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:41 pm

Mr. Quimper wrote:Ok, time for the big question...what with my having Komplete 4+Massive, and probably upgrading to 5, and then adding Logic as well, am I going to suffer from complete VI overload??? It seems like Logic's got an equivalent to nearly everything NI has (minus Reaktor) - does any sane person need all that?

If Logic's VIs are really that good, I may decide to sell my NI stuff...

The VIs in Logic are awesome. I believe that the organ won the Keyboard B3 shootout between VIs, however, I would not get rid of Komplete. The NI stuff is awesome - so is the Arturia stuff. They are all awesome in different ways.

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:45 pm

dougieb wrote:The VIs in Logic are awesome. ...The NI stuff is awesome - so is the Arturia stuff. They are all awesome in different ways.

Key word here is awesome? Perhaps you do a better job in the VIs then the guys who did the online demos. I thought they sounded rather flat and lifeless - at least as far as what I would be using them for. About as good as the one's MOTU provides (that I don't use either).

zaster · Post by **zaster** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:37 pm

Haven't tried the B3 yet, but I am very skeptical due to how truly wonderful I feel about NI's B4.

So anyway, I've been doing this DP recording all day but I thought tonight I'd export a couple bounced down backing tracks to Logic so I could rerecord the piano part MIDI using the 32 buffer size setting. I have never recorded MIDI piano like that. The latency is completely vanished!

Man- it made the old part seem like I'd been moving my fingers through quicksand.

However, I had an impossible time figuring out how to get the audio backing tracks to play back properly once I hit the record button, they were being delayed. (I really don't know what I'm doing yet.) But since they were playing back normally when I had the transport playing, not recordng, I just played along to the file and then used the magical "capture as recording" to posthumously make my performance a recording. That is one cool feature, you have to admit. It's there in case you were just noodling around and then realized you wished you'd recorded what you just did.

As for the screenshot of those velocity bars, it's still not the mountain shape you get in the old-school style velocity editing. I continue to predict I can do all my MIDI editing faster in DP. And from everything I've read so far, it would seem dealing with a large orchestral template with lots of editing will not be Logic's forte. In fact on the Logic forum I've encountered some orchestral folks kvetching that the program doesn't cater to them as much as they'd like. I will however, investigte as much as possible without prejudice, to see what's best for different tasks in my workflow.

There is no slam dunk here for Logic is what I'm trying to say. There are some innovations and some awkwardness. It's good for everyone to learn different ways of doing things because sometimes just that can give you an idea how to approach some third thing later.

I don't like the mandatory second "main outs" fader always taking up a chunk of your screen real estate. I like having control of the track in focus's fader at all times, but my favorite way of implementing that would have to be ProTools. Despite this, and having a Digi002 with pT LE in my setup, I rarely launch PT at all. Maybe once every 6 months or less. There are situations however where PT would be my first choice, but those haven't come up in a couple years.

I do have to say this though- the language barrier between PT and DP is quite slight compared to either vs. Logic. I think a person can read their first DAW manual from cover to cover, but for each new one you would have a lot less patience. There should be enough overlap that you can skim through the subsequent application of the same family. For example, I used to work as a graphic designer and my first layout program was Quark. I read that manual cover to cover. Every subsequent layout program I learned followed similar principles, so I didn't have to do that, I skimmed. Same with the lineage from MacPaint through to Photoshop, right? It's normally a matter of learning a few different terms, key commands, etc.

But Logic seems to have unnecessarily reinvented the wheel in a lot of inconsequential areas and it's sort of a pain. I actually feel that unless I read the entire manual, I will simply sit there scratching my head for an hour for any little thing I want to do.

Lastly: The DP/PT mixing boards are way better IMO- again, there was no need for Logic to concoct a different sort of fashion statement for that, especially when it's not as good.

Furthermore: Boy have I been long-winded in my posts today! My apologies!

blue · Post by **blue** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:53 pm

zaster wrote:Furthermore: Boy have I been long-winded in my posts today!

Nothing a few paragraph breaks couldn't fix.

Mr. Quimper · Post by **Mr. Quimper** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:55 pm

zaster wrote:It's there in case you were just noodling around and then realized you wished you'd recorded what you just did.

Ok...no questions asked, I NEED LOGIC NOW!!!!

Seriously, this happens to me almost every time I sit down at my keyboard. I'm more of an improviser than a composer, so 9/10 I'll come up with something incredible on first try when I'm not thinking too hard about it and then when I try to consciously recreate the spontanious creativity I'd just had, it'll be completely gone, never to be had quite the same way again. It's almost like the pressure of the fact that my performance is being "recorded" kills all the energy...

Forget compressor and all those juicy VIs now...THAT is the major selling point of Logic for me now!

Thanks zaster!

zaster · Post by **zaster** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:14 am

blue wrote:Nothing a few paragraph breaks couldn't fix.

Right you are- there, that looks much better!

jlaudon · Post by **jlaudon** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:24 am

zaster wrote:
blue wrote:Nothing a few paragraph breaks couldn't fix.
Right you are- there, that looks much better!

A profound analogy as I lay on my bed having a Sunday afternoon nap (with occasional peaks at this thread - yikes, am I hooked?)

Logic is like zaster's original post - one big long paragraph, takes up less space, but hard to read. DP is like the amended post, broken into a few paragraphs, easy on the eyes, and just as quick to read, even though I had to scroll once or twice.

zaster · Post by **zaster** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:28 am

Mr. Quimper wrote:It's almost like the pressure of the fact that my performance is being "recorded" kills all the energy...

Yeah but it remains to be seen what kind of impact this particular mind-f*ck will have long term- now while you're improvising you'll know you're actually secretly recording- kind of like Big Brother, don't you think?

Also, interestingly, it has a pretty big buffer for this data, way larger than the typical last "take". Wonder where all that other stuff ends up, and if there's a way to access it in case, say, you wanted to hear something you did 10 minutes ago.

iMAS · Post by **iMAS** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:35 am

zaster wrote: Lastly: The DP/PT mixing boards are way better IMO- again, there was no need for Logic to concoct a different sort of fashion statement for that, especially when it's not as good.

LoL. I concur. Perhaps in the year 2079, all DAW's mixers will look
more like Logic's.

I have Logic 8 all installed and ready to go...just haven't had the time
to play with it yet.