L8 Whoa!

[PeterMcCStrat]

Hey, no offense, but you are a self-proclaimed "new" DP user and you've had Logic 8 for 2 days and you've somehow reached the conclusion that Logic is way better than DP? Wait 'til the honeymoon wears off and let us know. The best thing about Logic is the no Latency on VI monitoring. On most other things, I give the edge to DP. The fact that people are getting excited about Logic 8 mainly due to the price and the bundling of a lot of things (half of which probably wouldn't be worth buying on their own) says a lot, I think.

well,
you must be talking to me?

But don't tell me what I said, nowhere in my posts did I say that Logic was
"better"...
If I implied anything it's that all DAWS have there strengths and weakness.
This is a discussion, don't turn it into the Nuendo forum where fanboys flame you for an opinion or being a Mac user.

Peter

[gearboy]

I think that everyone here needs to make a checklist of pros and cons concerning their current DAW setup. Then figure out what the best system is for them. I for one am sick of hearing "DP sucks" talk around here, or "Logic 8 is a PT killer!". Whatever. It's a tool, learn how to use it, keep your Mac in a state that is best for running it smoothly, etc

I have an aging G5, an even older/slower Powerbook, two 828mk2s and DP4.61 and it is still THE BEST recording system that I have ever worked with. Period, the end. And I'm still learning DP, four years almost to the day since I bought 4.12 and my original 828mk2. Sure, some things have pissed me off over the years, but nothing has ever prevented me from making music, especially recording other folks.

Here's a solution to the VI latency while playing in real time problem. Make a smaller bounced down mix, or stem that mix, and create a sister session with these smaller mixes (that sound identical to the one in the big session, btw) to record your VIs along to. Now set your latency to 128 or 256. No problems. It works, and doesn't cost any money. You don't have to upgrade. It only takes like 2-10 mins to set up, which is probably shorter than the amount of time it takes most of us to complain about it by posting here. Oh, and then import that VI's MIDI track or audio track or both back into your BIG session. Done. Once you invest some time into this idea and work it into your work flow, well, you'll realize that it's not so bad and in a few years none of us with a new Mac or the newest version of our DAW of choice will need to worry about working like this any more because technology will have caught up and our Macs will be fast enough to handle anything that we can throw at them with audio.

I know I know, I'm making up excuses for MOTU and DP. Cool, debate that while I make some music over here with Elektrik Piano, Guitar Rig 2, and DP.

Jeff

[crufty]

I think the issue is why would someone pay $750 for new DP or $400 for upgrade when L8 is $500...

Obviously, there are a lot of people happy with DP. I was not one of them in the end...I was for a while. I found it very intuitive...but was stifled with what I wanted to do: real time control of existing sequences, which required sending NRPNS to other devices. The last straw was when I finally started integrating DP with the rest of my project studio, and found that it would not play nice with the cornerstone of my setup (Virus TI). I was espicially unhappy with Tech Support's (non) response. Not that apple's will be any better mind you...

So I was very happy with the new L8 came out. Obviously, I can't say is it better or worse yet--for me, and me alone--but so far things are looking a lot better. My hope is that DP does push the envelope.

In terms of what is productive, my hope is that this comment doesn't cause anyone to feel negative about their own setup--I truly wish DP was working out for me, because I really liked it. And now I have to setup L8 and we'll see how that goes...

[builder]

I started recording with Tascam Portastudio when I was 13. Then I had a Tascam MiniDisk Stuido (I dread those days). Then an Roland 1880. I loved the 1880. It was rock solid, never crashed, had some decent effects, but edited audio was awful...

Then I bought tracktion before Mackie owned it and loved that as well. It was so easy to use, but didn't have any useable editing features.... Then came DP4.... Talk about editing!!!!

It felt so much like the Roland, it just made sense. There was a learning curve, but it wasn't that bad. I slaved DP via MIDI and transferred all my songs and have been with DP ever since.

Here is my take (I know get on with already) I like VI's, they are pretty ok in my book. But I only l keep VI's to tape if the real thing isn't availabe. They seem to be much better for skectches (at least for me) I am guess I am luckly enought to know how to play a bunch of instruments as well as knowing other people to play.

I have hear unbeilieveable things come from samples where the person really knows what they are doing in terms of MIDI, and DP handles that very well too. Maybe Logic does it better, maybe some people prefer DP.

Its seems that a good majority of flack is pushed at DP for its VI implementation, and that Logic is better in that area and maybe it is.
But for straight up audio, DP is killer. I don't see how anyone can argue that...

I ordered Logic Studio (I bought express a few years back to use in my school). $300 gets you very little. Logic seems worth it even if it us only to learn and make skeches on.

I'm a DP guy......

[PeterMcCStrat]

I think DP is great,.but on my systems,.. Mac Pro and G4 powerbook.
It chokes the load on MIDI throughput, and I don't use much MIDI so for me thats an issue, I don't like.
aside from other small niggles I have, that was really the core of me "trying" out L8,.
I may not stay with L8, who knows,. but truth be told,... I'm a gear junky and enjoy learning new daws and tools and would not have bought it for $1,000.

but 499,.. What the heck?

it's all good as long as musuc can be made!!!!

peace

PM

[jgest]

After I sell PoCo, I'll need some sort of NR, and have already considered this option too.
Unless MOTU includes one soon, along with a bunch of other essentials like a pro 'verb, I think I'm gonna implode - I love MOTU and 'Cornies too much!

I think we will have a clearer picture around Jan 08 in regards to Powercore and motu's rebuttal to L8. The chatter on poco forum is that it is nudging closer to a stable 2.5 release (mac is first priority over pc) And for hobbyists like us, there is NO need (in my opinion) to succumb and invest energy into this frenzy.....unless we have no other impending issues in our lives.....
For the pro guys making a living, I understand the need to invest enrgy in this unfolding transition.

[emulatorloo]

but 499,.. What the heck?

basically -- yeah!

For me it is a 199.00 upgrade -- pretty much have to get it just for some of the extras -- for example:

Soundtrack Pro (great editor for cleaning up noisy tracks)
Ability to burn DVD-A discs (too bad my DVD-A player is chingada)
Ability to write Dolby AC3 files.

===

[James Steele]

I have to give a big thanks to Chrispick for I believe mentioning mda Detune in another thread.[/img]

It wasn't me, but in the spirit of contemporary achievement I'll take all the credit.

Oops... I thought it was you. Somebody recommended it in the free VI and Plug Ins sticky thread. What a very useful plug and free too.

Oh... back to the Logic thread, I think really there's only a couple of key features DP could "borrow" from Logic to pretty much soothe most of us:

1) The ability to have small buffers ONLY for record enabled VIs and not ALL tracks. Whether they'd need to design a new 424 card for this is something I wonder about, because isn't the buffer on the hardware in MOTU PCI systems?

2) I really like what I've seen in the video about Logic's Take Folders and how you can build a comp track. That's a real nuts & bolts workflow improvment and frankly THOSE are precisely what MOTU should focus on and leave some of the bells and whistles things alone.

I do think they could bundle VIs like MachFive with DP, but just as Apple has always done with Logic, they would need to cripple those VIs so that they only work within DP. It's not like you can buy Logic 8 and then use any of their VI's with DP is it?

[PeterMcCStrat]

James,

you're right in that the take folder and swipe comp is awesome.

But, even though DP is awesome think about a few simple things that just don't make sense.
There is really no "ARRANGE" window,. IMO track view is birds eye OK,
but not real accurate for moving MIDI or audio around, snap is on the sequence page, right? makes no sense.
dragging an RMX or other MIDI loop is a major chore for me in these pages.
never mind a REX loop, fughetabout it!!

also, I want to be able to click a MIDI track and have it open in an editor of choice,.. why not? every other DAW uses this.
ditto on audio tracks.

maybe if Motu makes the "tracks" view more work friendly,. and non microscopic that would work because these features are implemented in that page,

anyhow,.. enough..

Best-
Peter

[dbudde]

It's not like you can buy Logic 8 and then use any of their VI's with DP is it?

True, but it's just stupid that you can't do this. I suspect that now that the price of Logic is as low as it is and is likely to get in the near term, that this might just change. I'd bet we'll see either the Audio Unit versions of the Logic plugs or an Audio Unit version of Mainstage at some point. It only makes sense if you need to buy Logic Studio to get them. Who cares if you can plug it into anything else. That will just increase sales. You can already plug them into other Apple products.

Having the plugs be proprietary has also been a copy protection mechanism for them. Since there is no XSKey anymore, there is no real protection for Logic Studio. Why maintain that for the plugs. The price is low enough to discourage piracy for anyone who is actually going to use the product.

I see no motivation anymore for not making the Logic plugs/Mainstage AU compatible.

[bradswan]

OK here's the thing.....
Motu could be the best App. hands down if they wanted to go all out with DP.
Ethno, Mach 5, beat Logic VI's by a long shot in my opinion.
Symphonic, MX4 with some TLC could be in the same category.
DP is all in all (aside from CPU, and a few other weak spots) a great program, very comprehensive etc......very good work flow enviroment.
So to me it's obvious they have the capability to create an amazing APP. I just don't think that's in their biz model, It just doesn't feel like to me they start each day with let's make DP number one. My sense is they have a lot of irons on the fire (which is great) and just aren't throwing their all into DP.

Am I trippin' or does anyone else feel the same?

[Frodo]

It just doesn't feel like to me they start each day with let's make DP number one. My sense is they have a lot of irons on the fire (which is great) and just aren't throwing their all into DP.

Am I trippin' or does anyone else feel the same?

You could be right, Brad.

There's also so much we don't know, such as what's *really* going on at the MOTU drawing board. This is sort of where speculation can blur the lines between optimism and false hope. I dare not overthink it, but raw curiosity can gnaw brutally at one's better sensibilities.

Maybe MOTU has a lot more riding on V3HD that it seems. That would explain a certain near isolation of the item that is clearly a conscious move on MOTU's part-- to not even put it, info about it, or even a link to it on motu.com. If V3HD doesn't sell as robustly as hoped, it may be a while before anything truly significant happens with DP.

On the other hand--- healthy sales of one product can deliver residual benefits to others-- so, we'll see what happens.

I go back to something said quite a few months ago:

Three landmarks:

1. The release of L8
2. The release of Leopard
3. NAMM 2008

One down, three to go. Maybe in January we'll actually get a genuine peek under the unicorn's petticoats.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

...Maybe in January we'll actually get a genuine peek under the unicorn's petticoats.

In the meantime, oysters all around!

[image deleted]

[Frodo]

... and such a hi-res photo at that!!

[MIDI Life Crisis]

... and such a hi-res photo at that!!

[deleted]

Eat your heart out!