Simple Cuemix question about monitoring.

kokojones · Post by **kokojones** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:44 pm

Unless I'm mistaken, the way to use cuemix for a headphone mix for an iso-room is to 'mute' the record-enabled track on DP, and turn up the volume of the appropriate track on cuemix.

I found that if the track is not muted on DP, I won't be able to control the levels on the headphone mix on cuemix. My problem is this: what if I'm in the control room, and want to hear what is being recorded for monitoring purposes? With the track muted on DP for the benefit of properly creating a a headphone mix through cuemix, how am I supposed to monitor what is being recorded?

Does this make sense? I'm sure I'm missing something.

Thanks!

Pappy725 · Post by **Pappy725** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:45 am

Last night during a tracking session, I had CueMix running without muting the tracks in DP. Of course, I didn't have the main outs connected to anything so that's probably why. If you're monitoring through CueMix, why not turn down the main outs? Shouldn't have to mute anything then.
HTH,
Stephen

kokojones · Post by **kokojones** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:06 am

great, i'll try it out tonight.

thanks!

kokojones · Post by **kokojones** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:23 am

hmmm..... okay so I did some tracking yesterday and am still having some issues. when you say 'turn down the main outs', what exactly do you mean? Do you mean turn down the main outs overall volume? Doesn't that interfere with how I (being in the control room) want to monitor what's being recorded? If so, that still doesn't really solve what I'm trying to accomplish... or does it???

What I'm trying to do is adjust the volume of the headphones for the performer (through cuemix) independently from the volume of what I'm trying to monitor as the engineer (through DP's mixing board).

So let's say this: the guitarist is in an iso-booth, and doesn't want any of his guitar in his headphones, but obviously wants the rhythm tracks to play while recording. The only way I, as the engineer, could accomplish this is to mute his record-enabled guitar track on DP, as well as turn down his guitar input in Cuemix. If I do not mute the record-enabled track in DP, the guitarist is still able to hear his instrument through the headphones, even with the Cuemix fader turned down.

But that leaves me, the engineer, without any way to monitor what's being recorded!

Is what I'm trying to accomplish possible? I'm sure it is, and I'm just overlooking looking something.

Thanks!

Pappy725 · Post by **Pappy725** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:22 am

Is CueMix working with your Mbox? I thought it was just for MOTU hardware.
?

Stephen

kokojones · Post by **kokojones** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:18 am

no, I'm using an 828 at a studio that I'm recording at. No Mbox needed!

Pappy725 · Post by **Pappy725** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:52 pm

Oh... your signature had the Mbox in it, so I wasn't sure. Will it work if you do another take on the track or do you need it playing for punching in and out? Another track entirely? An aux track from a prefader send in DP's mixer, outputting to the headphone mix? There's gotta be a way to do this.
Stephen

baanes · Post by **baanes** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:01 pm

You're having this problem because CueMix does NOT affect the computer audio in any way. When you turn down a bus, all you are doing is turning down any input to output hardware routing you have set up. Send something to your main outs (or any outputs), then open cue mix, set a bus and set it to main outs and turn it up and down. nothing will happen.

If you are wondering about the main out volume knob on the front, it is separate from cuemix and controls the level for everything going out the mains - computer, cuemix, etc.

A lot of people seem to be confused about cuemix. it would be great if it had routing abilities for the computer, but it doesn't. I wish MOTU would clarify this.

gearboy · Post by **gearboy** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:14 am

Correct me if I am wrong, but...

The "Master" fader in CueMix is different for all four buses in CueMix. So you can actually route a headphone mix to, say, analog 7-8 on the 828mk2.

Use CueMix exclusively to monitor incoming signals AS AUDIO. Do not monitor through DP. So yes, mute or whatever you need to do in DP5. In DP4.61 I have it setup (or it is limited) for zero-latency monitoring through CueMix, and I hear nothing through DP. I simply make sure that my level is hovering around -14dBfs by setting up an aux track for that input on the 828mk2, setting a Trim or FreeG for "pre-fader", and turning the volume down on that Aux. Now I can monitor in DP for recording levels without hearing latency, and use CueMix for monitoring levels as they relate to a mix or headphone mix etc. It works for me and may be convoluted but I don't mind.

So, headphone mix...

In Digital Performer, you should set up an Aux track to output to analog 7-8 on the 828mk2. Choose any stereo bus not in use in DP as the input to that Aux channel, say, Bus 1-2. Now set up that Bus 1-2 on any channel in the mixing board (any track) that you want to output to headphones, and bus it over to analog 7-8 on the 828mk2. So your already recorded tracks in DP (drums bass etc) are now going out of analog 7-8 with a mix that is independent of the Master Fader in DP. Very important. You can literally control any track's output to analog 7-8, or use the Aux's fader to control the overall level to analog 7-8. Need less bass? Turn it down at that bus's trim for the aux send on the bass track.

In CueMix you have four buses, accessed through the tabs at the bottom. You will only need two buses, so pull down the "Master Faders" of CueMix's bus 3 and 4, or turn them off (if possible, I am at work right now and can't access).

CueMix's Bus #1 will be your control room input monitoring to DP. Any input into DP from your mics can be controlled here for monitoring, though I believe that the faders in CueMix do not control the level into DP, which is great. Having independent control of this is to your benefit. I could be wrong, as I have yet to have coffee and haven't done this in a while.

CueMix's Bus #2 is now your headphone mix bus. Set up the levels of the incoming signals to blend with the mix coming out of DP to analog 7-8. Set the "Master Fader" in the bus/tab to analog 7-8. All incoming mics will blend in with all audio from DP and go out the 828mk2's analog 7-8 and into your headphone amp. All levels for mics going to the headphone mix are controlled through this "tab"; all levels from DP are controlled in DP.

Now, you can set up a third tab to "mimick" the headphone mix for monitoring the headphone mix in the control room. This is easy. Simply select Main Outs 1-2 as the output for this CueMix Bus and set all inputs as the same as the in levels for your headphone mix tab.

In DP, create another Aux track. Have it output to the same outputs as your monitors/DP Master Fader (Main outs 1-2 on my system). Give it the same input (Bus 1-2) as the Aux track outputting to analog 7-8. Now you are sending all of the elements of the headphone mix to the Mains. Click it on and off at the Aux Mute in DP, and...

You can do a few things here. Mute the Aux that is mimicking the headphone mix and you will have your normal control room mix. If you set up an aux that includes all tracks in DP post fader that outputs to main out 1-2, you can literally have that one labeled "Main Mix", the headphone aux as "Headphone Mix", the next aux as "Headphone Chase Mix" etc. AS you mute Main Mix or "Headphone Chase Mix" you are choosing which one outputs to the control room's monitors.

I hope that this helps and that it is not too confusing. It is really simple building blocks of signal flow and since DP's mixer is just like a really nice traditional analog mixer, well, you have some really nice choices here for signal routing. I use Aux tracks and buses for a lot more than simply FX sends/returns. Using them as a way of grouping tracks before the Master Fader is a great way of having much more control over what you can do and get out of DP.

Jeff

kokojones · Post by **kokojones** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:36 am

awesome... I'll try your lengthy advise out. thanks for the suggestion!

gearboy · Post by **gearboy** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:43 pm

No worries. Feel free to post any questions. Hope that I made the above easy to follow. I ramble in the morning (all day really).

richard · Post by **richard** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:04 pm

I'm trying to use a subwoofer in my setup with my 828mkII. I can make a bus in DP or logic that outputs to an 828 analog out that would go into my sub, but I would like to set it up so that the sub is always on and acting as support for my stereo speakers.... this way, I wont be mixing with the sub in mind for my stereo mixes and can listen to music in iTunes with the sub too.

I can't find my manual and I was wondering if I could use the send outputs... how do they work? Can they duplicate the main mix? When I plugged in my sub to them, nothing came out....

I've tried using the AudioMIDI setup to configure my speakers... it plays the sample noise when I test the sub... still works with DP and Logic, but only if I'm sending to the LFE channel. iTunes doesn't put any signal to the sub channel though.

Richard

robob · Post by **robob** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:29 pm

richard wrote:I'm trying to use a subwoofer in my setup with my 828mkII. I can make a bus in DP or logic that outputs to an 828 analog out that would go into my sub, but I would like to set it up so that the sub is always on and acting as support for my stereo speakers.... this way, I wont be mixing with the sub in mind for my stereo mixes and can listen to music in iTunes with the sub too.

<stuff removed>

Richard

The unfortunate answer is no. I have hijacked another thread to deal with this issue. MOTU does not provide any way to route the computer audio via the CueMix utility or the onboard mixer in your 828 or my Ultralite. Very annoying. I had not considered that this would not be possible. Does your sub have an internal crossover like consumer units? If so, output to that and then feed you monitors from the sub. I am using a consumer sub so I have done that for now. Not sure what I will do when my 003 comes in.

Take it EZ,
Robert A. Ober

richard · Post by **richard** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:47 pm

robob wrote: MOTU does not provide any way to route the computer audio via the CueMix utility or the onboard mixer in your 828 or my Ultralite. Very annoying. I had not considered that this would not be possible. Does your sub have an internal crossover like consumer units? If so, output to that and then feed you monitors from the sub. I am using a consumer sub so I have done that for now. Not sure what I will do when my 003 comes in.

My sub is a decent consumer sub (Kliptsch). It does have crossover inputs/outputs, but I'd have to lose my balanced connections and go RCA.

What I've done is gone with a balanced patch cable from my 828s main outs to analog input 1-2. I've used two busses on cuemix to route it from inputs 1-2 to Outputs 3-4 on one bus, and 1-2 to output 3-4 (mixed mono). Channel 3 goes to the sub and 1-2 analog outputs go to the monitors.

I've 'A-B'ed the two setups a few times (with the sub both in on and off positions when testing the cue mix/analog setup). And I listened to a few different recordings in different styles of music I'm familiar with. I thought I could hear a touch of distortion (not much) and a touch of hiss when using the cuemix setup. Considering my BX-8s don't cover too much bass anyway, I set their crossover to 85khz and set my sub's crossover to around 100 and I'm going with the cumix arrangment for a while.

Pappy725 · Post by **Pappy725** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:29 am

Richard,
The sends on the 828 are from the front two mic pres. For outboard effects, course you have to take up two analog in's to get the effected signal back into the 828.

I can't find my manual and I was wondering if I could use the send outputs... how do they work? Can they duplicate the main mix? When I plugged in my sub to them, nothing came out....

HTH,
Stephen