LOGIC STUDIO AND LOGIC 8 JUST OUT!!

[gearboy]

Well maybe apple figures the majority of people would choose to purchase it at a lower price than try to download 46 GB.

Is it really 46GB? That's crazy!!

I guess anyone interested will need a "Logic Partition" on their hard drive.

[Timeline]

Maybe not if you throw away Garage Band and all associated samples

[Pound]

Man I don't know. 46GB is alot of space being used and now a days I read about people with 8 plus GB of ram on their computer.....seems crazy to me. I just want to see a project that requires all of that. I've never in my life needed that much power to record a song. Granted I'm not recording a symphony, but still. Seems like overkill. I guess we all have different needs though.

[James Steele]

Just the other day, I was in an airport while someone was installing Photoshop on a friends PC, I looked over and saw them running a "keygen" to get the serial.

This is so typical and it's why there's such a problem. People who wouldn't think of stealing a 99-cent candy bar at a 7/11, will have no problem copying a $500-$1000 app. Would've been funny to look over at them and say, "Hey, I work as a programmer at Adobe. Why don't you stop by my house on Friday and steal my little girl's ibicycle?" Not that it would matter... they'd think you rude, but perhaps they'd feel just a little guilty too and that's a good thing.

FWIW, I know most of us do this already, but when our friends and fellow musicians hit us up to get copies of our commercial software we need to politely refuse, even if it's uncomfortable.

[Timeline]

Earlier versions of PS were pretty much a freebe but not any more. My CS2 was a bitch to install on both my laptop and desktop and I had to call AD several times and I BOUGHT IT.

They're getting better at protecting it seems.

[emulatorloo]

Man I don't know. 46GB is alot of space being used

Most of that 46GB is a sample library and loop library -- somewhere I saw a breakdown of it. If I can find again I will edit it in here.

ON EDIT from Apple Logic Studio pages:

Available disk space:

7GB to install all applications and required content

Additional 39GB to install all optional content (large content packages can be installed on separate disk):

10GB for Jam Pack collections
16GB for sound effects
6GB for surround music beds
7GB for other optional content

------------------

Apparently you only need to install what you want, and you are given the option as to where you want to install the library.

--

[PG]

I guess it's hard to come up withone piece of code that really shines on both platforms.

That was actually what Emagic did with Logic 4 and 5.

!?!?!?! The best description I heard of Logic 5 was "baroque nightmare". Maybe it was equally rubbish on both platforms?

I didn't hear that. I used the program.

[grimepoch]

Unless apple built in a 'dongle' like feature into laptops, I find it a complete pain to use the dongles. I hate them actually. I prefer to use a scheme where I send data to the company and they give me an auth code. If someone REALLY wanted to hack the iLok they could. Granted, it will take a lot of work, but when the first person gets it done, then ALL iLok products will be hackable at that point. That day WILL come. Software is NEVER safe. Many programs have already been circumvented around their dongles, I've seen people using them!

And where I find it most a pain is that most plugins I buy allow installing on two computers; ie laptop and desktop. I really dislike moving the dongle back and forth between them machines (both dongles as the Korg Digital set has a something NON iLok).

But to each their own.

[grimepoch]

If you did not know, the Apple store actually has Logic installed on their machines. So, bright and early I headed out to see one of my close friends that works there to play with the software.

Obviously I couldn't get deep into it, but the few minutes I did spent playing with the new features was incredibly interesting. It still feels like Logic to me, but they really have fixed a lot of things I didn't like. I still cannot imagine not using both, but I did end up buying it (If you buy through an employee you have to have it sent to you in the mail).

They redesigned the EQ that is built in and now it has a frequency analyzer. What I noticed also is a LOT of very useful plugins I do not understand why we don't have with DP.

Do I think it is a DP killer? No. Because I think that people who use DP for where it excels are still going to continue using DP as I think for environments where you are doing a lot of recording and less MIDI soft-synth work it really still feels like DP is better. For my MIDI work though, I can see it really getting done in L8 if it is always as easy as it looks.

And I'd repeat, the ability to use both I think is a win-win.

I've always been SUPER PRO DP for many years, and I almost feel guilty using another product. But, as most of us here agree, the right tool for the right job is essential.

Also, I do mastering work for people where they give me zero time aligned tracks. I CANNOT imagine doing this in logic WITH what I know about it. It just wouldn't feel right to me. It doesn't feel designed for that. Both DP and PT seem to excel more in this area.

So that's my two octaves. I love that the competition is now REALLY heating up in the DAW world because we all win. I feel this makes me more marketable and just has me excited about even more tools for the job.

[James Steele]

Huh? I don't get it... what is your point. I started a list that flags people selling burned DVDs of commercial apps. Many of these may be apps that are protected by serial numbers. I'm in favor of apps being protected by dongles like iLok, because I think iLok goes a long way to discourage piracy. Everybody says the "casual user" is discouraged. How many casual users can find a way to defeat an iLok?

I don't believe that security keys or copy protection is bad. If it were completely removed from all apps you could kiss most of the audio developers goodbye. I'd fully endorse DP using iLok as well.

My point is that despite the variety of protection schemes, piracy is rampant, to the point where you found it necessary to take matters into your own hands.

Despite lojack there is rampant car theft.
Despite locks on doors there is rampant burglary.
Despite DRM there is rampant music theft.

Yes, I took the matter into my own hands, and the hands of many others who joined flagapirate@yahoogroups.com, because the problem of crime will not be substantially abated so long as you or I sit back and look the other way and expect law enforcement to deal with it. Damn right, we're taking it into our own hands, and we're effectively shutting down the guys that burn thousands of dollars worth of apps and sample libraries onto DVDs and then blatantly advertise them on craigslist.

It speaks volumes about the lack of resources law enforcement has when these pirates feel secure enough to advertise that they're criminals and give out their phone number and name without any fear of consequences. I personally know the name and phone number of a notorious pirate who lives in the San Diego area bootlegging Reason 3.0 like it's going out of style. I've exchanged email with him where he admits it and is proud of it. His attitude is "Yeah? So what's it to you?" I could call up his local police department, with information but what are the odds they'll spend a single man hour on it. It might be worth them making a phone call to him and that might dissuade him.

But yes, I and other people who have joined flagapirate@yahoogroups.com are making a difference. It's easy. Many of us musicians are always looking for a deals on craigslist (we like to buy our gear, not steal it) and we see these ads. All you have to do when you see one is flag it as "prohibited" and then paste the URL in an email message and send it to flagapirate@yahoogroups.com. Other members who are subscribed receive the link and it takes only seconds to click it and flag the add. Within minutes it is removed and we are eliminating the ability of pirates to use their chief method of advertising.

Will this eliminate piracy? No. But, it's vastly more effective than doing nothing. I never quite understand the implication that just because something doesn't completely solve a problem, it's pointless or not worth doing. If more of us got more in the habit of taking matters into our hands as citizens and doing just one little act of courage or getting involved (for example, leaning over to someone and asking, "Are you stealing that software?" or when we see someone hanging around our neighborhood or apartments that we don't recognize asking "Can I help you with something?") as a whole we're better off. Free societies that don't police themselves don't stay free for long.

Oh... as a plug if you want to join "flagapirate@yahoo-groups.com" send an email to:

flagapirate-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

I agree that the iLok is the least intrustive of the options available; mine has been trouble free (so have my Syncrosoft and Logic keys) . But the hackers just have to buy an iLok. They still don't have to buy the software. Like you, I want the problem solved so companies like Elemental can stay in business.

I don't know how a hacker buying an iLok can manage to somehow get the necessary licenses to just appear on the iLok. I haven't heard of this. But obviously, this is more than the "casual" thief then isn't it? How many people would know how to hack an iLok? I've never even heard of it.

Also, is Elemental still making software? I recall they sold to Roger Nichols Digital, who raised the prices and added iLok.

[James Steele]

Back to the list, I'm not sure why you mention "just one site"... I can't do everything,
..........
Take that LOCK your your front door. I don't know why you have one.

.
I wasn't being critical of your efforts on the pirate list. Just pointing out that piracy is so rampant, you can only practically address a small piece of it.

As for LOCKs. Yes, I have them. I've had two break-ins and lost all my equipment and instruments both times. The police advised me that locks are useless, and what I need is a lot of lighting, a very loud alarm, lots of insurance, and a house in a neighbourhood with a lot of people around all the time. That's what I did. Still have the locks, because they make me feel good, but objectively I know they're ineffective.

I'm sorry to hear you had break-ins. Without belaboring it, I feel that it illustrates that ultimately you and I... the "neighborhood" in essence... is the one real most effective solution and that's what I'm doing with craigslist. Making the craigslist "neighborhood" an unfriendly one for pirates. If this makes me that crotchety old guy sitting on my porch watching everyone coming and going, fine. "A lot of people around" doesn't always help. In California, people live in neighborhoods for years and don't know the people next door. Someone can sit in a car parked in front of a house for an hour and nobody will go up to that person and inquire what their business is, or at least write down a license number. And crime is bad enough that unless there is a violent crime against a person, you can count on the fact that the police will simply take a report. They seldom bother investigating crimes against property like burglaries. They just don't have the resources these days.

Folks... law enforcement can't protect us. They're undermanned and overworked and the best they can do most of the time is try and clean up the mess when it's all over. We need to assume personal responsibility for our own safety and our neighborhoods. A vigilant citizeny is what can make a difference.

[Jim]

$500 seems a fair price just for the loops, samples and SFX, unless it's just 39G of crap.



,

[Pound]

Man I don't know. 46GB is alot of space being used

Most of that 46GB is a sample library and loop library -- somewhere I saw a breakdown of it. If I can find again I will edit it in here.

ON EDIT from Apple Logic Studio pages:

Available disk space:

7GB to install all applications and required content

Additional 39GB to install all optional content (large content packages can be installed on separate disk):

10GB for Jam Pack collections
16GB for sound effects
6GB for surround music beds
7GB for other optional content

------------------

Apparently you only need to install what you want, and you are given the option as to where you want to install the library.

--

That's good to know. I'd definitely put all of the extras on an external.

[jweisbin]

Unless apple built in a 'dongle' like feature into laptops, I find it a complete pain to use the dongles. I hate them actually. I prefer to use a scheme where I send data to the company and they give me an auth code.

Sorry to turn this into a copyright discussion, but I HATE challenge/response authorization, and would much rather everyone used iLok, or serial numbers. Here's a very typical scenario for me: I manage a stable of composers. Each uses his Mac 8+ hours per day 5 days a week. Eventually the boot drive will fail - that's a given. Then, I have to install a new boot drive and clone back a recent backup. Everything works EXCEPT the challenge/response plugins, because they are keyed to a system ID, which is usually based on the hard drive and other devices. Change the hard drive and you change the ID. After spending 30 minutes doing the above, I then have to chase after re-authorizing their plugins for 2-3 days, during which time they can't work with them. That sucks! (and the worst is Native Instruments). Eventually, you will use up your 2-4 authorizations, and then have to beg them for another. iLoks or Syncrosofts make this problem go away.

[JadeLatrell]

I don't think Native Instruments has this problem anymore as you can manage the authorized computers online.

For instance, I have Komplete on a Receptor, a MacPro and Mac Book Pro. I used to have it on a PC laptop instead of the MBP. When I tried to install Komplete, it said I had used up all the authorizations. So I went online and deactivated the PC and then re-ran the Service Center and all went fine.

Companies are coming a long way to help those of us that are legit. They know that there is no one solution that will keep everyone happy. So we just have to deal with it. I consider the trials of keeping legit software authorized as part of the "supporting the developer" process.

But I know not everyone feels the same. I suppose that more companies can do the MOTU thing and have the protection be a printed manual