DP with Firewire Audiophile - no audio output

[DCB]

I am new to both Digital Performer and to Mac. Previously I have used PC audio software such as SONAR and Samplitude. If someone could sapre a little time to help me I would be most appreciative.

For some reason, I am unable to get any consistent audio output at all from DP. I am using an M-audio firewire audiophile interface. I installed the latest driver and selected "Firewire Audiophile Multitrack" as the default audio device in the DP Audio MIDI Setup. As a test, I imported a pre-existing MIDI track into DP and created an instrument track for playback. First I tried this with Apple Sound Bank Synthesizer (DLSMusicDevice) and it worked fine. Then, I tried it with Native Instruments Kontakt2 AU plug-in, but could not get any sound from the soundcard, although the level meters in the DP track window and mixer show output for both the MIDI and instrument tracks. Now returning to the Apple Sound Bank Synthesizer, I cannot get that to sound either. I cannot figure out what has changed since installing Kontakt.

Kontakt stand-alone works OK.

Audio files playback through the audiophile using iTunes.

The software return bus in the audiophile mixer shows output even when I am getting no sound (although the physical out of course registers nothing).

I have exhausted all the possibilities I can think of. I have to admit I am still a little unclear about how audio routing works in DP. For example, the Firewire Audiophile has 6 outs (2 analog pairs + spdif) but I cannot find anywhere in DP that lets me select which out. The only output choice I get is "Output Analog 1-2 (stereo)". I have spent hours reading that enormous manual too!

Any help most appreciated!

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Check your audio bundles in DP. I'm not sure, but it might be that you have to route the audio to an appropriate output in the playback track. Also check the DP mixer and confirm that audio is being sent out and that the output bundle is valid.

You sound like you know what you;re doing, so I hope these suggestions don't seem to elementary. I don't have the same FW device, but I do have an M-Audio 410 and if you go into your M-Audio Firewire control software, you might see the Kontact player sending audio to a channel that is not properly routed (or activated).

[DCB]

Thanks for your reply. I had a look at the bundles window and discovered how to add outputs so that all the physical outs of Audiophile are available in DP. That in itself is a little progress. But it makes no difference to the main problem.

However, I have discovered one way of overcoming the problem that has nothing directly to do with DP: clicking the reset button (load defaults) in the Audiophile control software window. I never get any sound out of DP when I start it up. But going into the Audiophile window and clicking the reset immediately restores audio. If I close and restart DP, the cycle begins again: no audio until I click soundcard reset. This happens even if I leave the settings in the Audiophile control window unchanged, and even if I run no other applications between closing and restarting DP.

This is very strange behavior. I am beginning to wonder if it's DP/Audiophile issue. I have changed the title of this thread accordingly.

As far as I have been able to determine the issue is DP specific. All other audio software I have used so far are able produce sound immediately on start up. (iTunes, Kontakt stand-alone)

As a temporary measure the reset trick works. It just means I have to open the Audiophile control window and click once everytime I start up DP. But what if I wanted to run DP with my own soundcard settings, not the reset defaults?

Anyone else experiencing anything like this?

[emulatorloo]

the Audiophile control

Anyone else experiencing anything like this?

FWIW I have run DP with many a sound interface. m-audio, emagic, digi, motu, egosys. line6.

I do not have the same computer as you but I did have a Audiophile PCI for a while.

I have found m-audio to be a little problematic. In my case the Audiophile would occasionally click and pop, with what sounded like clocking errors. The only solution was to quit and go back in.

Now that I think about it a little more I had similar issues where the card would stop emitting sound at all.

This did not occur with the other interfaces I have used.

I don't think their drivers are the greatest. Also FWIW I had the same problems with the Audiophile and Apple Logic Pro.

So it was not just a DP problem, even though the card worked fine as an itunes card.



---

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I have found m-audio to be a little problematic---

Ditto. The FW410 has behaved well the last few months, but it does go south every so often.

I would suspect the audio interface is the problem in the current instance.

[DCB]

Thanks for your replies.

Could anyone recommend an alternative audio interface? Preferably, I would like something in the same price/feature range as the Audiophile. Should I go for a MOTU instead? I have had good experience using Echo on Windows. What are they like on Mac?

If it really is an interface/driver issue, then I find it strange that Apple would sell the Audiophile through their online store (which is how I got mine).

[emulatorloo]

I have had good experience using Echo on Windows. What are they like on Mac?

FWIW Echo relies on the built-in Apple firewire audio driver, rather than writing their own driver.

There were lots of problems w this driver and pro audio apps -- latency issues, random offset of samples etc.

Apparently this issue has been fixed in newer versions of the Apple driver, which is out in beta. There have been good reports on it from some others around here who were using other devices that also rely on the Apple firewire audio driver.

But for that reason I have been nervous about any firewire audio device that doesnt come with its own driver written for it.

The way you recognize those that use the built in Apple driver is that they are advertised as "class compliant" or "needs no driver -- just plug it in!" etc etc.

If it really is an interface/driver issue, then I find it strange that Apple would sell the Audiophile through their online store (which is how I got mine).

Oh I am sorry to hear that -- It is certainly a good enough product for garageband etc. Who knows what it is, I am only relating my experience w M-Audio products. And if you do a search here on m-audio I think you will get similar stories.

Maybe it is worth opening a case w M-audio tech support and see what they say.

---
An old thread I started that may or may not be helpful:

Please help me pick a firewire interface
http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17028

FWIW I ended getting up with a used MOTU 828mkII, but then decided to go back to PCI and got a used MOTU 2408mkIII.


--------------

Let us know what you are looking for in terms of price point ins and outs etc.

[Aramis]

Can you tell us what is your needs for an audio interface to DP ?

Aramis

Thanks for your replies.

Could anyone recommend an alternative audio interface? Preferably, I would like something in the same price/feature range as the Audiophile. Should I go for a MOTU instead? I have had good experience using Echo on Windows. What are they like on Mac?

If it really is an interface/driver issue, then I find it strange that Apple would sell the Audiophile through their online store (which is how I got mine).

[DCB]

Thanks for all your helpful input.

I haven't had much chance to investigate the problem further since last posting, but one thing I have noticed is that I also lose audio after bouncing in DP. Clicking reset in the soundcard control panel clears the problem immediately.

Basically I need a simple good quality interface for monitoring virtual instruments and samplers (both stand-alone and as plugs in DP) through headphones. I only record MIDI. I don't record audio, so the number of analog ins is not an issue. I don't need a lot of outs either because I do almost everything on a single computer. Occasionally I want to route a signal via S/PDIF to an outboard processor and back again, or input from another computer or synth. I got the Audiophile because it had everything in one: MIDI, S/PDIF, and headphone port.

If there were any basic PCIe interfaces on the market I would get that instead of firewire.

[Aramis]

So , I do not understand why you do not use the Mac audio itself !!!

Aramis

Thanks for all your helpful input.

I haven't had much chance to investigate the problem further since last posting, but one thing I have noticed is that I also lose audio after bouncing in DP. Clicking reset in the soundcard control panel clears the problem immediately.

Basically I need a simple good quality interface for monitoring virtual instruments and samplers (both stand-alone and as plugs in DP) through headphones. I only record MIDI. I don't record audio, so the number of analog ins is not an issue. I don't need a lot of outs either because I do almost everything on a single computer. Occasionally I want to route a signal via S/PDIF to an outboard processor and back again, or input from another computer or synth. I got the Audiophile because it had everything in one: MIDI, S/PDIF, and headphone port.

If there were any basic PCIe interfaces on the market I would get that instead of firewire.

[DCB]

Maybe I am wrong, but I thought the inbuilt audio was only 2 channels (one stereo pair). At the minimum I want a 4 channel set up that enables me to use the analog out (master) and digital ports (send/return) independently. Am I right in assuming that the inbuilt digital ports on the Mac simply mirror the analog ones?

I must admit that I never checked the exact specifications of the inbuilt audio, but as a general rule any inbuilt computer sound system is going to be inferior to a dedicated interface in terms of latency and sound quality. I don't want to run into any serious latency issues when recording MIDI (playing back on a virtual instrument).

[Phil O]

DCB, I don't know if this is related to your problem or not, but I have run into a routing problem on my system. The problem started when I installed Finale 2008 with Kontakt 2. This is a limited version of Kontakt and does not have a stand-alone component. No matter what I do, Kontakt sends a signal to the wrong channels on my firewire bus when I try to use my Apogee Rosetta 800. If I have both my Appogee and my MOTU converters hooked up, and select Apogee analog 1-2 for output, the signal is sent to my MOTU 828's s/pdif's out. If I select MOTU 828 analog 1-2, all is well. I thought it was a problem with Finale, but it could be a problem with the Kontakt AU component. If I have DP running at the same time, it screws with the audio out and I have to re-launch DP to re-set things.
I've contacted tech support at Finale and they said they are aware of the problem and are working on a solution, but didn't indicate if it was a bug in Finale or Kontakt.

Just a thought. Your problem could be different. Have you tried using DP without Kontakt?

Phil

[Aramis]

Ok ,
You are right they are miror. So , you need more than a srereo pair at a time ? Maybe what you got will do the job ...
If I were you I would contact MAUDIO and officially ask for support ...
And from there , you would be abble to decide if you get the product back to the shelf and buy something else ....

Aramis

Maybe I am wrong, but I thought the inbuilt audio was only 2 channels (one stereo pair). At the minimum I want a 4 channel set up that enables me to use the analog out (master) and digital ports (send/return) independently. Am I right in assuming that the inbuilt digital ports on the Mac simply mirror the analog ones?

I must admit that I never checked the exact specifications of the inbuilt audio, but as a general rule any inbuilt computer sound system is going to be inferior to a dedicated interface in terms of latency and sound quality. I don't want to run into any serious latency issues when recording MIDI (playing back on a virtual instrument).

[DCB]

OK, I've filed a report with M-audio tech-support. Let's see what they come up with.

Just to recap in case anybody is still following this:

I cannot get any audio signal from DP to the Audiophile outs, even though the level meters in DP indicate that audio is being sent, and the software return meters in the Audiophile control panel also show audio coming in. The only work arounds I have found so far are:
(1) Clicking the RESET button (load default settings) in the Audiophile control panel, or
(2) Using Mac in-built audio as an output from DP instead of Audiophile

The problem is not specific to any particular sound source within DP: it does not matter whether I am trying to playback a regular audio track or a virtual instrument track. It does not matter either whether I am using Kontakt plug-in or some other virtual instrument like Apple Sound Bank Synthesizer .

And here is another interesting discovery: When running Kontakt in stand-alone mode simultaneously with DP (routing MIDI from DP to Kontakt via the IAC driver), the problem described above recurs. I don't get any audio output unless I click on RESET in the Audiophile control panel. However, I can still get audio from Kontakt to the Mac in-built audio when DP is running at the same time.

As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, Audiophile works fine with Kontakt stand-alone so long as DP is not running at the same time.

To complicate things further, if I go into hardware settings in DP and disable Audiophile, Kontakt works OK in stand-alone mode even with DP running at the same time.

So, it definitely looks like DP and Firewire Audiophile are incompatible.

Is anyone out there successfully using M-audio Firewire Audiophile and DP together?

[DCB]

For the record, here is the response I have just received from M-audio:

This is a known issue with Mac OS 10.4.10 and we are currently working on an updated driver to resolve this issue. Updated drivers will be available shortly from our www.m-audio.com website

Regards

Richard
UK Tech Support
M Audio UK
www.m-audio.com