First impression of M5.2 - very positive!

[Shooshie]

I'm starting a new thread, because I'd like to achieve a little balance here. The impressions I've read here are largely VERY negative, and I was shocked to think that we were reviewing the same piece of software and collection of samples.

First off, my DVD-1 would not load, so I'm only dealing with DVD-2, 3, and 4. Maybe it's that first DVD that has all the bad stuff that's bumming everyone out. It will be a week or two before I can get that replaced, so maybe then I can be as bummed out as everyone else. But judging from the other three DVD's, I'm extremely impressed with this babe!

I have not had time to learn the features, to create special performances, or really to do anything yet except just try out some bare sounds. Right off the bat I was able to get effects and sounds with my Yamaha WX-5 wind controller that no other sampler/rompler has afforded me. The Vienna instruments were superb! Best I've ever used. Of course, I'm providing the articulations with the wind controller. It took some adjusting of controls on the WX-5, but eventually I was able to make all the samples VERY playable, very expressive, very responsive. The timbres are beautiful with a profoundly French bias in tone. That's my preference; if you're after German sounds or British, you might be disappointed, although some of the brass - horns for instance - sounded like the best compromise between French (when playing soft) and British (when playing loud).

I'm impressed with the full-screen capabilities. You can work at three different screen sizes. The normal little window that was always there, or one that fills up the whole interface, or one that goes full screen completely.

I was able to load Apple Loops, which sounded great except for the sounds of the slices made slight pops. I suspect there will be some learning in this department to eliminate those noises and bring the pops down to zero crossings or crossfades or something to that effect. Again, I'm writing this after about 2 hours of playing with an incomplete sound set.

I'm having trouble understanding the comments that there is "no life" in these sounds. I'd say the exact opposite. I'm impressed with the sounds and with M5.2's potentials -- its ability to handle the sounds. I hear so much potential in this sample set that I'm very excited to be working again. I can now do things that I've never been able to do before.

The piano is very close-micced, and very bright. It's also very clear. I think it's a beautiful piano sound, and yet it does not reach Ivory, but it's very good for certain sounds in its own right. But those who expect it to be a finished recording in one pass are going to be disappointed. Recording piano is a very hard thing to do. Once you get the recording, it takes a lot of engineering to bring that recording to what the ear expects to hear. I like it that the Mach Five "German Piano" gives us that actual recording, and leaves it to us to engineer it as we wish. Cut out the midrange around 315 Hz, give it some stage placement in Altiverb along with some beautiful hall sound, and you're going to be impressed with what you can get out of that piano. It's very clean, and reminds me a lot of the PianoTeq modeled piano in its sound.

I'm also troubled to hear so many negative comments from people who have either not tried M5.2 at all, or who have not spent enough time with it to learn how to make it sound its best. Does anyone really expect to sit down at this VERY complex device and instantly make it perform at its maximum capabilities? There is a lot to learn here, and that's coming from one who used to use Mach Five (1) fairly often. I feel like this is a completely new instrument. I'm at the bottom of a steep learning curve, two hours into it, yet I've already fallen in love with the VSL sounds, and I've already seen that loops work, though I've got to learn how to get rid of the artifacts in some of the Apple loops.

We have different emphasis and purposes, and mine may simply be more suited for Mach Five-2, but at this point in time I'm profoundly pleased with Mach Five-2, and I can't wait to hear how I am able to transform some of my mixes with it. First impressions can change, but from what I've seen here, I expect this reviewer's impressions to fulfill expectations and beyond.

It's very exciting.

Shooshie

[melenko]

Well Shooshie! Thanks a lot!
I've got the impression reading the posts, Motu had failed.
I was expecting the release of MF2 to take a decision between
Kontakt2, and Reason.
But you're right, a sampler is a sampler, so you have to deal with.
I'm pleased to read your opinion about that piano, because I was also
tempted to buy Pianoteq, wich sounds great at my ears.
Off course, why the acclaimed VSL samples should be less good in MF2?
Personnally, I like the interface of that sampler a lot.
More... convivial, user-friendly. And last but not least, it's a MOTU
product, probably more compatible with the DAW I use and like a lot.
The flexibility + the efficacy seem to be huge.
I'm just hoping MOTU wan't wait another 3 years to make it evolve.

PS: sorry if my english writing is not the best, French is also very difficult
to learn.

[melenko]

Well, a mistake... "won't', off course!

[RCory]

I hope none of the posts I made gave an impression that M5v2 wasn't good. - Quite the contrary - I love m5v2 and think it's a wonderful and worthwhile upgrade. I think you're right, Shoosh, it is a whole new instrument.

I haven't quite fallen in love with the VSL stuff, but that doesn't mean anything.

Well written.

[Shooshie]

Your English is to be admired, melenko; My French, on the other hand, well... it sucks. As for MachFive-2, it cannot possibly be everything to everyone, but I can see that it tries, and it's come a long, long way. I've been loading my old Kurzweil disks into its storage folder as disk images to make it easier and faster to access my old sounds. Some disks will not appear in the list. Others will. I have no idea why. Maybe some of my old disks are corrupt. I haven't used some of them in 5 years. Others load presets that surprise me very much. For instance, I just came across a great jazz sax preset. Mach Five-2 handled it as well as the K2600 did. Some work, some don't. Again, I don't know why, but the amazing thing to me is that so many DO work!

I believe I have an advantage to monophonic instruments like flute, oboe, and even solo violin (which isn't monophonic, of course), because I use the WX-5 for input. Being a pretty good sax player makes that very easy for me. It gives me the ability to make better articulations than I could at the keyboard, and I don't require as many keyswitches to other layers (though they all come in handy). Perhaps that's why the samples all sound good to me. But I've heard some virtuosic keyboardists who could do what I can do, only at the keyboard! I suspect they won't have any trouble with the samples, either!

I believe that MOTU succeeded in producing a very fine, very flexible product -- an instrument that is of great value to anyone who needs a universal sampler. Like DP vs. Logic, there are always going to be differences that some people simply prefer on another instrument, such as Kontakt2. Nothing wrong with that. But the more I use M5.2, the more I'm thrilled to have it. I haven't been this excited about my work in a long time. Maybe in the coming weeks I can post some short musical bits to illustrate what I like.

I'm sad that a number of people will be turned away from M5.2 by the comments that make it sound like a complete flop. I wish those people would explain themselves better, because I cannot see what flopped. For me, everything so far has been a huge success.

Time to go make another disk-image. The last one just finished...

Shooshie

[Wave]

I hope none of the posts I made gave an impression that M5v2 wasn't good. - Quite the contrary - I love m5v2 and think it's a wonderful and worthwhile upgrade. I think you're right, Shoosh, it is a whole new instrument.

I haven't quite fallen in love with the VSL stuff, but that doesn't mean anything.

Well written.

Same sentiment here. In fact I am converting my Akai libraries as we speak. We'll see how well it converts the EOS libraries soon.

But, I ain't falling in love with the M5/2 samples any time soon.

So far, so good. No crashes. Rock-Solid! No missing samples reported elsewhere.

Wave

[Frodo]

I'm starting a new thread, because I'd like to achieve a little balance here.

Shooshie-- for me personally, I was patiently awaiting your report so that I could weigh it alongside others that I've read. Thanks for posting!

Right off the bat I was able to get effects and sounds with my Yamaha WX-5 wind controller that no other sampler/rompler has afforded me. The Vienna instruments were superb!... I'm having trouble understanding the comments that there is "no life" in these sounds. I'd say the exact opposite.

So far, you're the only one reporting using these sounds with a proper wind controller. The difference in results between this and a keyboard are light years apart. I think you have a very important advantage at your fingertips that many others may not. The "breath of life" has suddenly become mission-critical, and where wind controller is not an option for most, the gnarly process of dealing with I-Beams and CC knobs and faders can no longer be taken for granted.

...But I've heard some virtuosic keyboardists who could do what I can do, only at the keyboard! I suspect they won't have any trouble with the samples, either! ...

It's not impossible, but mastering it doesn't happen overnight. Some keyboardists are truly gifted with entering tons of expressive data in real time (with the right hardware).

Also-- I am SO glad you have some modicum of VSL in your mitts at long last.

I'm also troubled to hear so many negative comments from people who have either not tried M5.2 at all, or who have not spent enough time with it to learn how to make it sound its best. Does anyone really expect to sit down at this VERY complex device and instantly make it perform at its maximum capabilities? There is a lot to learn here, and that's coming from one who used to use Mach Five (1) fairly often. I feel like this is a completely new instrument. I'm at the bottom of a steep learning curve, two hours into it...

Bingo.

That's not to ignore those who have had genuine troubles with getting it installed or are having trouble importing sounds which are allegedly compatible.

What I've been waiting for are reports of stability, given my recent troubles with other apps. I just didn't want to add to my woes too soon. I'd gotten K2 because I had to and couldn't wait. Plus the entire EW link with NI was something I couldn't avoid.

Still, I have a use for M5v2 and will get it in time. There are a few August specials which will expire long before my M5v2 upgrade fee will.

I'm just eager to keep reading the reports and trust that those who feel strongly enough for good or ill with continue to contribute their impressions which can all be weighed together.

[Kubi]

I've posted it before, but I'll say it again: I think it's a monster. Absolutely happy, glad I got it (and I had to pay for the upgrade...)



PS: I do highly recommend a cover-to-cover session with the manual and M5v2 open and running...

[Kubi]

PPS: Rock-solid so far on a

•••2x2G5
•••3.5G RAM
•••10.4.10
•••DP5.12
•••MOTU and built-in OSX drivers only

[sdfalk]

Well Im entitled to a free upgrade, and Im VERY excited.
I can't wait to receive mine.
Any comments on CPU efficiency vs version 1?
Im still running on my little single G5 1.8

[Kubi]

Any comments on CPU efficiency vs version 1?
Im still running on my little single G5 1.8

Seems comparable so far. That is, unless you make full use of things like the IRverb, or load up all the additional effect slots that weren't there in v1, or keep adding parts (they're unlimited now...) or similar. All those of course add to the 'original' CPI hit.

Also be sure to watch your RAM - if you load i.e. some of the new piano presets and don't engage streaming, you may be in trouble. Of course, if you load smaller presets, it's the same as v1.

[danworks]

I've to agree with Shooshie here, even if I've a slightly different opinion about the sounds library.

I'm always amazed from people expectations in general, in this case about software upgrade.

We've got a sampler (not a player or a synth, a sampler) with a proper waveform editor built in, including most if not all DSP action to destructively modify the samples, with (finally) an exaggerated window size, no need to stick the nose to the screen while extending a note or a velocity range. Loop Lab ... was it here before? Nope, again another simple tool to tweak our rhythm samples and change them on something else - that's what a creative instrument it's made for, isn't it?

For the lazy folks (and not only), no need to translate our libraries to M5 format anymore, now we can just read it and use it, no need to instantiate more than one M5 cos thanks to the whatever number of ch/parts, one M5 is enough, no need to launch MSI, Ethno or PSP anymore, your read their contents directly.

Then rules, modulations, automation, lot of other thing we'll discover after having RTFM. Sure there's room for improvement, sure it can get better and hopefully it will, but these are obvious things.

Reading negative comments on a sampler by judging it's "free" 32gig library it's just a nonsense to me. Setting aside the the small VSL version, the M5v2 lib is obviously a collection of libraries coming from bigger and already on market USB - PSP's libraries stuff.

If the pro-complainer is old enough, he should have tons of libraries ready to be used with M5 so there's really no reason to complain. If he's a newbie and M5 is his first and only sampler-instrument, he should be happy for the free 32gig stuff as a decent starting point, and then cos from now on he'll be able to read almost everything on the market with one app only.

There's someone very disappointed with the M5 VSL version? Well, now that the VSL Pro-Edition is close to be discontinued, you can get it discounted spending as little as $3353, same price of seventeen M5 upgrades, not bad

[sdfalk]

Any comments on CPU efficiency vs version 1?
Im still running on my little single G5 1.8

Seems comparable so far. That is, unless you make full use of things like the IRverb, or load up all the additional effect slots that weren't there in v1, or keep adding parts (they're unlimited now...) or similar. All those of course add to the 'original' CPI hit.

Also be sure to watch your RAM - if you load i.e. some of the new piano presets and don't engage streaming, you may be in trouble. Of course, if you load smaller presets, it's the same as v1.

Fair enough

Thanks for that

[sdfalk]

As a PS:

32 gb of samples?? bring it on..I can make use of that

[3over3]

Regarding the perception that there are many negative comments when only a few people actually have the product:

• Human nature makes us more likely to talk about any negative issue, however minor. This forum is brilliant at helping users beat any solvable difficulties. Rather than simple moaning, posting often leads to answers
• This is the internet and anyone can freely comment - if I was a commercial competitor (NI, Digidesign, Yellow Tools, etc) I'd be pulling the product apart and shouting loudly about anything vaguely inadequate on any forum I could. It's interesting to note how many new or infrequent posters have contributed since v2 arrived. Of course, if it was me in competition with MOTU, I wouldn't have bothered buying the product before trying to persuade people not to buy it
• MachFive is in the unenviable position of trying to provide two services it seems - Sampler and Library. This aspect has been much discussed and it seems that user taste in the samples is causing some to infer that the entire product is either good or bad

So far, we've seen solid incompatibility issues (you need an OpenGL2 graphics card, as described on motu.com), potential user errors due to new workflows in the program (we're awaiting more info on 3rd-party importing) and minor bugs (sustain pedal, a click on a handful of samples in the 32gig library). I'm not lucky enough to have it yet; I hope it works on my rig, but nothing's putting me off it yet. Caveat emptor? Caveat forumus readerii (sorry, I went to common skool and don't speak latin. Well, only the Harry Potter kind).