Let's talk about passive monitors...

gearboy · Post by **gearboy** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:59 am

Favorite passive monitors for under $1000 and why. Also, what poweramp are you using with them, provided that you LIKE the combination.

I've been using Alesis M1 Active MKII monitors for the past 4.5 yrs. I recently hooked my vintage hi-fi setup up to my 828mk2 so that I can A/B monitors using the 828's software to control the direct out between Main 1-2 and analog 7-8. Works with iTunes, not sure about DP... will play with it this weekend. Anyway, my Yamaha hi-fi speakers sound great, with nice imaging, etc. A recent project sounds terrific through them, in the same room, hooked up to the same system. The Alesis M1 Active MK2 monitors sound very scooped and bass heavy compared to the vintage setup. I've been meaning to upgrade, but I have had 1000 excuses.

My room is not together, really, and I know that this is half the battle. I am getting ready to purchase a house soon, so all funds have to go there right now. However, once in the house I will be taking on more and more paid projects with the hope of all money earned going into room treatment (mixing area/vocal booth) and new monitors as my next upgrades. That's right, I am single.

So, again, passive monitors... what's out there besides NS-10s for $600!

Jeff

monkey man · Post by **monkey man** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:09 am

The original Alesis Monitor One.

I used a pair with the RA-100 amp, and I thought the tone was natural, well balanced and non-fatiguing.
Mixes translated well.

When I first heard my current active Alesis 720 DSPs, I was a little disappointed with their forward character and high end harshness, relative to the Monitor Ones.
Of course, my ears adapted, but I'll always have fond memories of those Monitor Ones.

Phil O · Post by **Phil O** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:34 am

Your budget is kind of tight there, gearboy. I would take a look at some of the stuff from Event. I mixed for a number of years on 20/20s and got good results (am I dating myself?). I'm using Adam A-7s these days and lovin' them. If you can spring for them, check them out as well. Excellent bang for the buck - perhaps the best in this price range.

MM mentioned the Alesis RA-100. If it's one of the original ones, that was a nice amp. I'm told that the newer RA series is crap, but I can't verify or dispute that. I like the crown stuff, but I've only had experience with their high powered stuff designed for live use. I was driving my old 20/20s with an amp that I designed and built myself. No, you can't have it.

Phil

HCMarkus · Post by **HCMarkus** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:32 am

Congrats in advance on the home purchase Gearboy. You will never have any spare cash again.

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:33 am

Today, passive monitors just aren't what they used to be. If you're coming from Monitor Ones or NS10's, I really second the Adam A7's. You're not going to get anywhere near this level of quality with passive without spending more than a few thousand, to be honest. If your budget is $600, can you wait and save up to get to $1,000? If you can, I assure you it will be worth it long-term....don't sacrifice long-term to meet a short term want.

IF you absolutely can not get to that pricing....then I'd consider these:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TR8XL/

FYI the pricing is per speaker.

Phil O · Post by **Phil O** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:42 am

Hey Brad. I notice in the Adam spec sheets they give specifications for passive speakers as well. Do you guys deal in those? Is the price difference significant?

Phil

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:52 am

You are probably referring to the ANF10's which are good monitors, but by the time you find a power amp that is good enough for them--the A7's are much cheaper. The days of passive speakers and power amps for the studio are pretty much over, that was ever so the case when Hafler folded as they were the last maker of professional, studio-grade power amps. Then there is the issue with bi-amping a passive speaker, it just doesn't make sense today both sonically and fiscally--other than the very high-end, even there that is changing.

Back to the ANF10---excellent for home theatre speakers!

OH and they do have other passives but those are aimed at the Audiophile and high-end home user, they are also expensive.

larryf · Post by **larryf** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:46 pm

to second what Brad said, when i was researching options for monitors, I ended up looking at the A7s and ANF10's. However, when I finally narrowed down to 2-3 amps that would be sufficient quality to power the ANFs, it was obvious that the A7's were the lower total cost.

They, at $1,000, are the greatest thing in my studio. I love these monitors. They are worth every penny. AND, they won't become obsolete when Apple goes 64 bit or introduces some new big cat operating system in 2 or 5 years. They're a looooooong term investment in your music. This is the place to put up some extra coin. Seriously, how many people clip $200 off their monitor investment, and then go out and blow $500 on plugins that might never use, or will rarely use, and which will be rendered completely useless in a year or two with the very next OS, DP version or other standard? JMHO.

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:44 am

Well said, Larry! Here's the deal guys..... monitors are THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF YOUR STUDIO....yet the area most just are afraid to invest the money into. When I'm miking a guitar, I'll go in the room and play with the placement of the mic, I'll come back and listen in the control room and see if that's the sound I like. If not, I'll go back in and play more with placement. It's even more true when I'm recording drums. I'll go back and forth as they're playing, listening to the sound in the studio BEFORE I start recording. Because when you have the best sound at the source by listening to mic selection, mic placement, getting the air you want and of course the sound you want at the source...THAT is the secret of great tracks. And if you can't hear in the control room the raw sound, how can you possibly be getting the right sound?

Many look at EQ and Compression as things you must do to make a track sound good, and in some cases this is true. I actually have a track I was going to post sometime this weekend that was recorded as a demo at a small, local studio. The band is a tribute band to Neil Diamond, called "Zirchonia" (spelling?) LOL Get it??? ha! Anyway, I re-did an acoustic guitar track for them and the vocals. On the vocal track, I used a Soundelux U99 through the Focusrite Liquid Channel. On the acoustic I used a Mojave MA200 through a Liquid Channel as well....NEITHER I did any kind of EQ. On the vocal track, I did run an LA2A as I was tracking and in ProTools I am using the LA2A plugin as a limiter on the acoustic track. Actually, I'll have a section of this clip posted this morning just to listen to it. The point I'm making is, I feel the sound came from my monitors.... because I was going back and fort playing with placement and distance of the mic in relation to the instrument and voice. I also do this with my drum overheads using my Earthworks TC30's....I do NO EQ whatsoever.

monkey man · Post by **monkey man** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:19 am

Phil O wrote:MM mentioned the Alesis RA-100. If it's one of the original ones, that was a nice amp. I'm told that the newer RA series is crap, but I can't verify or dispute that.Phil

Yeah, it was bought a year after it appeared on the market.

The blurb suggested that the Monitor Ones were designed to pair with the RA-100s.
Perhaps this helped some.
Given Jeff's budget, I do feel he could do a lot worse.

I really did (and still do, based on memory) like the pairing, and always felt they had a good balanced, "American" sound, which I prefer to the "Japanese" sound (NS10s, etc.).

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:02 am

Here are a few samples I promised.... again the reason I post these here is I was using my monitors as part of the recording process, to listen to them with mic-placement and technique BEFORE recording and trying to EQ later. It's easy to think of monitors just what you use for mixing, but they are equally as important for tracking too! These are 24-bit, 44.1kHz .WAV files.

This clip is the Mojave Audio MA200 through a Liquid Channel on Acoustic Guitar, NO EQ added.....

http://www.audioandmidi.com/media/audio ... AcGtr1.wav

----
The vocal is actually a Mojave MA200 (not the Soundelux U99 as I stated) through a Liquid Channel, again NO EQ....I did add a trace of TL Space reverb.

http://www.audioandmidi.com/media/audio ... C_Voc1.wav

----

While I'm at it, here are a couple of Guitar Cab examples using a Royer R121 through a Presonus ADL600. NO EQ, Compression or Reverb other than what was built into the amp....

http://www.audioandmidi.com/media/audio ... 602_LP.wav

http://www.audioandmidi.com/media/audio ... P_Rock.wav

----

The monitors in my studio pictures look like the Adam A7's but they are not, they are Adam S1A's. While the S-series is radically different in features (and price, ouch!!) than the A7's...the folded ribbon tweeter IS the same. You get a lot of the Adam quality of the $3,000 S1A's through the A7's at $1,000 for the pair. As Larry said above the best $1,000 you could spend.

Anyway, hope these short files might be helpful.

gearboy · Post by **gearboy** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:45 pm

Actually, my limit is $1000 and under, and I am not only considering Passive monitors. I just simply don't know what's out there, and figured that this thread would generate some useful monitor information, active or passive.

$600 was simply my description regarding what NS-10s are going for, which is ridiculous.

The Adam A7s are on the list, as are the Event SP8s as far as active monitors are concerned. I probably won't be making a move on monitors until the spring (again, house shopping), but if I get some more film-based audio work this fall I will set $1K aside for monitors.

thanks for the input!

Jeff

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:28 pm

Jeff,

If you can do $1k on monitors, you're fine and I assure you---the A7's will be the ticket. FYI a client of mine tried to purchase more expensive monitors from me a few months back, I pretty much forbid him to do it. He struggled with me for a bit wondering first why I'd recommend something cheaper, and then how something more affordable could be a better solution. Well, this is what he wrote back after getting familiar with them.....

Has to be some sort of Magic
by Mark Bartram from Centeral New Hampshire, August 2007
Music Background: Musician and recording engeneer for 30 plus years.

So I'm working with my personal sales engineer Brad, and I'm trying to get him to sell me a pair of XXXXXX (EDITED to protect the manufacturer)(I've used XXXXXs for the past 7 years and I'm very used to the sound). Anybody thats done business with Brad know what I mean when I say I'm trying to get him to sell me something. His usual first comment is "well their nice, but..."
So he tells me about the A7's. I record and mix progressive rock and kick and bass are very important. I'm not sure about the 6.5 inch drivers and even less OK with the 50 watt (RMS) amps. But I trust Brad big time and order a set (still thinking I need 8 in. drivers and at least 250 watts on the low end. )
I have a fairly well tuned room, 11 X 16 with 8 foot ceilings. They arrive, I look at the small foot print these speakers take up, panic, and wire them up.
I pull up a favorite CD, moderately crank up the A7s, and don't move for the next 45 min. The air around these speakers is indescribable. Remember the first time you really heard a great pair of speakers, it's kind of like that, except it's every time you use them. And, they sound even better when they "break in".
Theres magic going on here, thats the only possible explanation, and I have been mixing for at least 30 years. Get a pair, nobody sends these thing back. If you don't like your pair, give me a call (Brad has my number) and I'll buy them.
Brad doesn't know it yet, but I plan on buying 3 more for full surround (don't call Brad, I need to get some more cash after the last purchase)

Phil O · Post by **Phil O** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:57 am

I agree with Brad. (wait, did I really say that?

) If your budget allows, the A7 are a great way to go. They out-perform much higher priced speakers. I've had them long enough now to have completed several projects with them, and my clients are raving about the mixes.

Phil

monkey man · Post by **monkey man** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:05 am

Brad:

Inputs: balanced XLR and unbalanced RCA.

Thoughts?
What if 1/4" jack is all you have?