CPU OVERLOAD WARNING

[rlpinc@verizon.net]

Hi All - I've had a dual quad-core macpro for 2 months now....2 gigs of RAM, and 2-500 gig internal hard drives. OSX 10.4.9 DP5.11 and 5.12. I immediately started getting the "Audio is overloading the CPU" warnings, whether using my MOTU Ultralight or 1296 (w/PCI424e card). Sometimes it doesn't affect playback or sound, but sometimes it stops playback and adds digital noise or glitches to soundbites. I've been working with MOTU and Apple techs for over a month on this issue, and so far no one has any answers. Apple is blaming DP and DP is blaming Apple - no surprise there. I've experienced this problem working on a DP project with just 5 stereo audio tracks - no MIDI tracks, no instrument tracks, no 3rd party plug-ins. Using 3rd party plug-ins does seem to tax the CPU. My former system was a dual 450MHz G3 with 512 megs of RAM, running DP3.1 and OSX 9.2. On that system I was running HUGE DP projects, with 30 audio tracks/40 MIDI tracks and many 3rd party plug-ins (B4/Atmosphere/Trilogy/Stylus) Has anyone else who is having this problem figured out what the deal is? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

[Frodo]

Apple is blaming DP and DP is blaming Apple - no surprise there.

Looking for a U-nation tie-breaker, are ya?

Dunno, rip. I've had a heck of a summer with MacPro misfires on both the DP side and the Apple side. At least they're blaming each other and not the user this time.

Some inconclusive observations which may not even be relevant-- just posted here to let you know you are not alone.

1. My MacPro shipped with 10.4.8, and when I experienced a few quirks even after a month of troubleshooting software, I went to 10.4.10 Combo Update and had a worse time. I went back to the "devil I knew", being 10.4.8 and that appears to have sorted a few things out. Should you choose to down-date your OS, I wouldn't go further back than the version that shipped with the computer.

2. Firewire has turned into a bit of a nemesis. However some devices parry for fw bandwidth is a bit of a mystery. Duende doesn't like to share at all and won't even mount even if other connected fw devices are turned off. There are tons of reports of problems with MOTU fw interface misfires. Check the MOTU Hardware thread and note the threads about the 800-series interfaces in particular.

---Also, try to test your project with Built-In Audio just to temporarily eliminate your interface from the police lineup.
---And you have the latest interface drivers? Have you tried using an older driver?
---What buffer setting are you using?
---Check for an accumulation of soundbites and delete the unused ones.
---Flush your Undo History and reduce the events to 40 or fewer.
---Consider putting an addition 2GB RAM in (?)

3. SATA and eSATA have been much kinder and gentler for hard drives. Splitting up drives onto as many different busses to increase the number of data paths for recording and streaming has also helped.

4. Activity Monitor does strange things once 32 threads are attempted. Even when those threads are reduced, the 'available RAM' column will display 16,777,210 terabytes and stay there even where audio and samples are dumped. It's at this point where DP likes to do its disappearing act. My workaround is to dump unused samples and soundbites, save the project (and/or a copy of the project), shut down the computer and the start again with the leaner project.

There has always been something quirkily stubborn between UNIX code which hangs onto old file references until the computer is rebooted-- sometimes several times. Repairing permissions sometimes has to be done two or more times before some of these permissions are actually repaired. In some cases, DiscWarrior comes to the rescue-- and the latest version has added a repair permissions feature.

Keeping my Activity Monitor threads below 32 streams has also helped stop most of the crashes.

5. All of my crash reports are showing conflicts between Core Audio and MAS. My third-party plugins are not listed in crashed threads, strangely enough.

2007. Top-line Macs. Latest software versions. No one can say we aren't doing our part.

[Timeline]

That's pretty bleak Frodo.

Maybe I'll just get another dual G5 and slave it. Can't see worries like that becoming part of my life.

So... I would see basically no improvement jumping up to the next gen?

[Frodo]

That's pretty bleak Frodo.

Maybe I'll just get another dual G5 and slave it. Can't see worries like that becoming part of my life.

So... I would see basically no improvement jumping up to the next gen?

It's a bit of an embarrassment to have to even cite such issues at all with these new machines.

Oh, there are plenty of improvements, and no mistake. There are just some caveats. If you're not ready to make the leap now, just keep in mind that while you wait the issues are gradually being sorted out with various updates from all sides, however slowly.

Bleak is probably more descriptive of my mood while I found myself uninstalling apps and wiping the system drive of a brand new computer several times. But in fairness, I'd like to offer that "bleak" may be a little strong for the condition in general.

'Annoying' is probably a better word!

I'm a little ashamed at Apple for the series of wonky OS updates. Now, the latest report is that they are "looking into" QT 7.2 because of numerous reported problems. We should expect 7.2.1 probably by the end of August (just my hunch). It ironically doesn't build confidence with 10.5 just weeks away.

And while Apple has its problems, I can't say it's encouraging to read reports of users getting DP errors of CPU and Audio Performance overloads on their MacPros. Audio Units not showing up in DP? That's a VERY old issue dating back to 4.0, for goodness sake. The ongoing necessity to trash preferences-- I mean, you expect to do that once in a while like going to the dentist. But it's becoming a routine more akin to brushing and flossing. It just shouldn't ought not ain't need to be by now.

I can't say that the quantity of issues has increased on the MacPros because PPCs have had their fair share. It's more that the issues are not new-- they're the same old issues taking wing again in new skies.

I won't even say that having both an Intel and a PPC now working side by side in a network has made me feel better or worse about one or the other. The MacPro is capable of things the G5 is not, and the G5 holds its own because of its experience. It's not even how much you can load on either where RAM limits of 32-bit threading are the same.

It's always about stability and reliability first and foremost.

Now-- I haven't had a crash in almost two weeks after experiencing them several times an hour, but I'm using nervous restraint lest elation turn to complacency. It shouldn't be so delicately balanced on the edge of a knife like this, and such concerns are quite long in the tooth. I've recently spent half my days troubleshooting and the other half trying to talk myself into getting some work done.

But I claim cautious victory for some of the compromises needed to effect solutions. I fail to get the instance counts some people are reporting. The only difference now for me is that I've quit trying.

So, I'm looking at a couple late model PPCs to add to my network since they're just going to sit there and host VIs. I would like to see prices come down on them, tho.... I still think there are good reasons why late model PPCs are so slow to depreciate, and many of those reasons just may be tucked away in this thread!

[rlpinc@verizon.net]

Thanks Frodo...I have checked DP running on built-in audio, without my 1296, and I still have the cpu overload issue. MOTU wants me to remove my pci424e card and try running a dp session on built-in audio. I don't remember what OS came with my dual quad-core macpro, but I'm currently running 10.4.9....ofcourse everytime you talk to a MOTU or Mac tech they want you to get the latest version, but I'm not doing anymore updating until I find out what is causing this issue. I've run a bunch of diagnostic tests that apple sent me, and they claim my macpro is not the culprit. MOTU is leaning toward blaming my macpro or my 3rd party plug-ins, such as stylus rmx. I don't think it's the plug-ins... I have heard of rare instances of bad processors in macs, but honestly I think it's a DP issue. It is comforting to know that other DP users are having the exact same problem I'm having in their dual quad-core mac pros... Hopefully one of these great companies will
step up soon with a fix.

rlpinc

[Frodo]

...MOTU wants me to remove my pci424e card and try running a dp session on built-in audio....

At least one user suspected that just taking out the card and putting it back may reset it.

Speaking of which, have you tried resetting your interfaces to its default setting? I don't know off hand what the buttons are for the 1296 or the Ultra-Lite--- but then again, if you've spoken to MOTU chances are they've already suggested it.

[Timeline]

Thanks Frodo for the nice clarification. I feel better now.

ripinc: you might do a bit of surgery your self and pull the CPU's and swap them as well as reseat them. also, pull your ram and make sure they are all seated properly.

I know this is major as far as work but it may yield some positive results.

Make sure you are grounded when you pull the parts

[rlpinc@verizon.net]

thanks Frodo...thanks Timeline...all good suggestions...I'll try them.

rlpinc

[Appalachian Boy]

strangely i havent had a single problem with my macpro, dp5.12, 10.4.10 and everything.

[Frodo]

strangely i havent had a single problem with my macpro, dp5.12, 10.4.10 and everything.

Appalachian Boy:

LOL-- let's keep it that way. Consider yourself among the most fortunate!!

[midilance]

Problem here too. Mac Pro 2.66, 5 GB ram, OS 10.4.10. DP 5.12, yada yada. I get the CPU overload window fairly frequently. 20-30 audio tracks. Not a ton of VI's or effects.

I would have expected this setup to not have issues like this. It's frustrating.

[rlpinc@verizon.net]

Hey Midilance....yeah, it's very frustrating. I've been working with MOTU for over a month now, and still no answer. They asked me to create a project that brought on the "audio is overloading your cpu" warning, using no 3rd party plug-ins - this way they could try to recreate it in their dual quad-core macpro...I sent them such a project 2 days ago...no response from them yet.
I'll let you know what happens....rlpinc

[midilance]

I will be waiting with baited breath.