Shortage of LM instances in DP 5.12

KED · Post by **KED** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:46 am

Hi All,

I'm not able to open the number of LM instances in DP that I'm supposed to be able to (according to the LM manager). Yes I do have LM on a dedicated PCI-E firewire card and bus, but for an example, even at 44.1, opening up 6 tracks worth of LM makes my system choke and stutters. It stops when I close one or more. I have Logic and don't experience this

Has anyone else experienced this? I also have my work priority set to low (I think this was recommended). Any ideas?

waxman · Post by **waxman** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:56 pm

i use 20 channels all the time.
make sure you set them to always run in real time.

TommyWhy · Post by **TommyWhy** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:44 am

If I just go to the hardware driver setup screen and hit cancel, the problem is solved, but Liquid Mix instances do seem to chew up a lot of CPU... I've not tested numbers like 32, but have gotten to probably 14 or so while taking a not so modest cpu hit. I've been using it less as a result. Considering a move to UAD-1 at some point. (and I do set them to run in real time, and I do have a dedicated fw buss to the liquid mix).

T

mon · Post by **mon** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:02 am

Maybe check your buffer settings? Make sure they're not too low. Are you trying to track with the LM plugs in or are you doing mixdowns? Do you have VI's running?

Although Logic does seem to handle the LM a tad better than DP does, the LM is certainly useable with DP I think.

David Polich · Post by **David Polich** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:59 am

If you are only getting five or six instances of LM, using a dedicated FW buss for it, then something else is wrong. The whole point of Liquid Mix is to take the load off your computer.

As the above post suggested, check your buffer settings. Liquid Mix runs happiest at the equivalent of 512 (in the LM hardware setup it's listed as "520").

I'd contact Focusrite tech support about it - they're very good about returning e-mails. They're in England, so give them at least 18-24 hours to reply.

mon · Post by **mon** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:31 am

David Polich wrote: I'd contact Focusrite tech support about it - they're very good about returning e-mails. They're in England, so give them at least 18-24 hours to reply.

This is good advice; Focusrite has excellent support.
Also remember that stereo tracks count as two instances of the LM plugin.

KED · Post by **KED** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:50 am

Thanks for the suggestions. I do use VIs and for the most part when I'm trying to run multiple instances of LM, I'm not tracking. 512 (520 in LM Manager) is the min latency I have selected.

I sent Focusrite an email before I posted this so I'm waiting for the response. When it's figured out, I'll post the solution. Any other suggestions in the meantime?

kassonica · Post by **kassonica** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:12 am

I believe that it works best at a buffer of 1024 have you tried that yet.

emulatorloo · Post by **emulatorloo** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:11 am

Yes I do have LM on a dedicated PCI-E firewire card and bus, but for an example, even at 44.1, opening up 6 tracks worth of LM makes my system choke and stutters. It stops when I close one or more. I have Logic and don't experience this

Has anyone else experienced this? I also have my work priority set to low (I think this was recommended). Any ideas?

I do not have liquid mix (and dammit I want it) but I do have the internets:

Does Liquid Mix work with other firewire devices?
http://www.focusrite.com/answerbase/article.php?id=234

We have tested and approved the following PCI firewire card chipsets:

- VIA
- Texas Instruments
- NEC

------
Is your firewire card based on one of those chipsets? As I say I do not have liquid mix but have found out the hard way thru experience to stick w what the manufacturer recommends re chipsets -- things "seem to work" but then don't actually work.

---------------------------------------------------------------

As to the work priority it sounds like it depends on what buffer you are running:

http://www.focusrite.com/answerbase/article.php?id=208

How do I optimise buffer settings in Digital Performer for use with Liquid Mix?

In addition to a standard size buffer setting, Digital Performer also has an additional setting called "Work Priority". The default value for this setting is 'High'. If you would like to use a buffer size of 1024 KB with your Liquid Mix, you may need to set the Work Priority setting to 'Low' or 'Medium'. Otherwise you could experience incontinuity in audio streaming. The buffer settings for Digital Performer are accessed in "Setup > Configure Audio System > Configure Hardware Driver..." as shown in Figure 1 below.

Fig.1

------------------------------------------------------------------------

GOOD LUCK-- I have been wanting liquid mix so will be interested to hear what happens. That product looks great.

PS> isn't there a newish driver to download?

--[/i]

David Polich · Post by **David Polich** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:28 am

Yes - version 2.0 is available from Focusrite's site as a download.

mon · Post by **mon** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:57 am

Here is the latest software:

http://www.focusrite.com/index.php?page ... liquid_mix

Make sure you have the LM connected when you install.

Although it is not a convenient way to work and I hate doing it try freezing the more CPU hungry VI tracks and delete the VI's (save your MIDI and settings).

KED · Post by **KED** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:21 am

All,

I wanted to thank you for all of the suggestions. The solutions to my problems with LM & DP were in those suggestions. I will detail them for others who may encounter the problems I did, I also did some further testing to give my fellow Unicornians insight on LM, DP & Focusrite.

First, waxman nailed it with the suggestion to make sure each instance of the LM plug was set to "Always Run In Real-Time." Once I did this, surely I was able to open 26 mono instances of LM without any problem in DP. I was running them at a buffer setting of 512, "Medium" Work Priority and Host Buffer Multiplier of 1. When I tried to open more instances, my system began to stutter and of course the DP cpu meter was going into the red (although in Activity Monitor, LM never used more than 6% processing power on my computer). I was determined to open 32 instances just to see if I could do it.

Next, I used TommyWhy's suggestion of hitting cancel in the "Hardware Driver Setup" screen and that usually worked when I would encounter the stutter but I still needed a solution for opening more instances without triggering the problem again. I found that increasing the Host Buffer Multiplier to 2 and above usually solved this. Guys (and Ladies), I was able to open all 32 mono instances (just as Focusrite said it would) @ 44.1k, 512 buffer and the DP CPU meter was fine.

I said, "Let me try this at a buffer setting of 256," and I was able to accomplish the same thing of 32 mono instances by increasing the Host Buffer Multiplier to 3 or 4. I tried the higher sample rates and it was fine.

Andy at Focusrite Support responded to my initial email and was very helpful with his suggestions (although you guys had already given me the answers) and would respond very quickly.

Also, I have my my LM connected to a SIIG Firewire 800 3-Port PCIE card. No problems with it.

Lastly, waxman, TommyWhy, mon, kassonica, emulatorloo, & David, thank you for the suggestions.

ECmaj7 · Post by **ECmaj7** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:11 am

Glad to hear the problemm is solved.
Always Run In Real-Time is a must in DP.

I wish there was a Liquid Mix users group.
It is a very daunting machine to learn, so many choices, so little time.
I just discovered the Empirical Labs EL8 Distressor, wow...
I would love to share presets etc...
Maye I should start one.

Sorry for the rat hole....

Emilio

mon · Post by **mon** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:29 pm

Thanks for reporting back, KED. I'm sorry my tips weren't any of the lucky winners but those other guys are pretty smart!

I remember there was another DAW that was supposed to have Always run in realtime checked; maybe it was Live, while Cubase and Logic shouldn't have it checked.

I wish I could remember where I read that. But I think that's it. Anyone know?

MOTUnation.com

Shortage of LM instances in DP 5.12

Shortage of LM instances in DP 5.12

my 2.66 Intel sometimes chokes on low instantiations.

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