Oh the Fab Four at last? I couldn't keep up with that thread! I was going to suggest this diversion in the meantime (see most current news!)
http://www.propellerheads.se/
Using VIs to emulate real instruments (belongs here?)
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Discussions about composing, arranging, orchestration, songwriting, theory and the art of creating music in all forms from orchestral film scores to pop/rock.
Discussions about composing, arranging, orchestration, songwriting, theory and the art of creating music in all forms from orchestral film scores to pop/rock.
Regarding the Bloch MIDI- Is this just residue from moving them, or are the doubled octave keyswitches used for something? (can you trigger 2 keyswitches at once?) In some cases there are what looks like 3 keyswitches before the same one note. Let me know what you think when you get a chance- by all means, enjoy your miller time!
(champagne of beers, eh?)
(Or were you having the Low Life?)
(champagne of beers, eh?)
(Or were you having the Low Life?)
Hey Zaster:
It's all low-life!! I think there are some Heinekens chilling and waiting for the right moment.
As for keyswitches, yes. There are all sorts of keyswitching and patch changing which can be done concurrently, and these switches are assigned to various octaves as the user sees fit.
In Vienna Instruments, there are matrices-- a grid into which various samples are loaded-- literally into a matrix. 12 across and 12 down max, making for 144 patches total (if needed and if resources allow). Each Vienna console can hold up to 10 or more matrices (can't remember right off--), but we're talking about one console potentially holding 1440 or more patches at once!
So, one way to go from one articulation to another in 1 single matrix is to hit a keyswitch. Those are by default C1-B1 for mid or high range instruments. Low range instruments have keyswitches in the C5 region because it's out of note range.
Now, even going from one matrix to the next can be done by keyswitching. These by default start at C0. So you could be seeing switching among patches within a single matrix as well as the switches going from one matrix to another.
It is also possible to switch rows in a matrix with keyswitching, so the keyswithcing can get as busy as the sequence itself as each note could easily require special expressive attention and special patches to function as musically as possible.
There are so many ways to switch patches back and forth with this, and I don't pretend to have come close to mastery. I do like using the mod wheel in some cases, but there is something called Velocity Switches (or close to it). Basically, if you have a variety of long and short notes-- say 6 in a matrix setting, you can scale the cross over point so that the faster you play the shorter samples are triggered. To some extent it takes the twiddling out of it, but it's not something that always works musically in all cases. It may work for a while, and then you'll find that you'll need to set up a new velocity switch patch as musical needs require.
No matter how keyswitches are done, I always find myself adding articulations as my projects go along just to make sure things sound okay. I've not found one standard template that works for everything, so I settled on a modestly loaded template of patches I know I'll use all the time and add on from there as needed.
Patch changes can also be assigned to actual CC# Patch Change to avoid keyswitches all together. Don't know if that's worth explaining at the moment-- and I'd have to do some research to accurately go through the process. It gets pretty geeky.
Foot switches, MIDI controllers, knobs, faders-- they're all available at once in almost any combo.
It's all low-life!! I think there are some Heinekens chilling and waiting for the right moment.
As for keyswitches, yes. There are all sorts of keyswitching and patch changing which can be done concurrently, and these switches are assigned to various octaves as the user sees fit.
In Vienna Instruments, there are matrices-- a grid into which various samples are loaded-- literally into a matrix. 12 across and 12 down max, making for 144 patches total (if needed and if resources allow). Each Vienna console can hold up to 10 or more matrices (can't remember right off--), but we're talking about one console potentially holding 1440 or more patches at once!
So, one way to go from one articulation to another in 1 single matrix is to hit a keyswitch. Those are by default C1-B1 for mid or high range instruments. Low range instruments have keyswitches in the C5 region because it's out of note range.
Now, even going from one matrix to the next can be done by keyswitching. These by default start at C0. So you could be seeing switching among patches within a single matrix as well as the switches going from one matrix to another.
It is also possible to switch rows in a matrix with keyswitching, so the keyswithcing can get as busy as the sequence itself as each note could easily require special expressive attention and special patches to function as musically as possible.
There are so many ways to switch patches back and forth with this, and I don't pretend to have come close to mastery. I do like using the mod wheel in some cases, but there is something called Velocity Switches (or close to it). Basically, if you have a variety of long and short notes-- say 6 in a matrix setting, you can scale the cross over point so that the faster you play the shorter samples are triggered. To some extent it takes the twiddling out of it, but it's not something that always works musically in all cases. It may work for a while, and then you'll find that you'll need to set up a new velocity switch patch as musical needs require.
No matter how keyswitches are done, I always find myself adding articulations as my projects go along just to make sure things sound okay. I've not found one standard template that works for everything, so I settled on a modestly loaded template of patches I know I'll use all the time and add on from there as needed.
Patch changes can also be assigned to actual CC# Patch Change to avoid keyswitches all together. Don't know if that's worth explaining at the moment-- and I'd have to do some research to accurately go through the process. It gets pretty geeky.
Foot switches, MIDI controllers, knobs, faders-- they're all available at once in almost any combo.
6,1 MacPro, 96GB RAM, macOS Monterey 12.7.6, DP 11.33
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Rick Averill
- Posts: 296
- Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:46 pm
- Primary DAW OS: Windows
- Location: Tulsa, OK
You know, now that I think about it, I believe the goal in using VI's is very much the same as it is when writing for live musicians. It's in getting the best out of what (or who) you have to work with.
I've written for professional musicians, and I've written for amateur muscians at just about every level. Always I try to know my players and what they are capable of.
With VI's I'm learning that I need to write so as to utilize each sample in its best possible light, and even adjust my arranging techniques accordingly.
I've written for professional musicians, and I've written for amateur muscians at just about every level. Always I try to know my players and what they are capable of.
With VI's I'm learning that I need to write so as to utilize each sample in its best possible light, and even adjust my arranging techniques accordingly.
Rick Averill
DP 10, Mac Mojave
DP 10, Mac Mojave
So very true, Rick. This is a lesson that can be observed by hearing performances or recordings of the same orchestral work by different enembles of all varieties of ability. Each one unique, each one good one noteworthy for the reading.
For VIs, understanding your virtual musicians is just as important as understanding the real musicians who'll play your orchestrations.
For VIs, understanding your virtual musicians is just as important as understanding the real musicians who'll play your orchestrations.
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HCMarkus
- Posts: 10376
- Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:01 am
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Rancho Bohemia, California
- Contact:
As has been thoroughly discussed herein, the perfect emulation of a known acoustic device does not necessarily result in music. In live performance. there is a feedback loop from player to instrument and back, ad infinitum. The player, striving to produce the sound he hears in his head, pushes his instrument in the desired direction. The instrument has inherant physical properties which constrain and emphasize different aspects of performance and timber. The player modifies his performance to produce the best possible sound from his instrument, and the instrument responds immediately. I have always admired those who manage to make synthesizers and samplers produce tones that sound as if they emanate from a real musical instrument even if the instrument is like nothing man has ever heard in a purely acoustic sense. What we risk losing in the VI game is that real-time feedback, the force that moves us beyond the rational and programmed and to the musical heavens.
Here's to the imperfection and inspiration that reveal the soul of our music through the machines we tinker with.
PS, and a tad more down-to-earth: I still love the physical modeling card in my Motif, played with a breath controller... it may not be particularly "realistic" sounding, but the range of immediately available expression lets me create living music in real time. I will have to try routing the BC-3 to some sample-based VI's, but am not at all certain I will be able to modulate tones with the degree of control I am used to. The breath controller is certainly an intuitive way to control brass and woodwind sounds. I have heard that some use it for strings as well, but have not, to date, managed to cross the emotional divide between breath and bow.
Anybody using his or her breath to control VI's?
Here's to the imperfection and inspiration that reveal the soul of our music through the machines we tinker with.
PS, and a tad more down-to-earth: I still love the physical modeling card in my Motif, played with a breath controller... it may not be particularly "realistic" sounding, but the range of immediately available expression lets me create living music in real time. I will have to try routing the BC-3 to some sample-based VI's, but am not at all certain I will be able to modulate tones with the degree of control I am used to. The breath controller is certainly an intuitive way to control brass and woodwind sounds. I have heard that some use it for strings as well, but have not, to date, managed to cross the emotional divide between breath and bow.
Anybody using his or her breath to control VI's?
Sir Shooshie, to be sure. Maybe he'll peek in here and share some of his thoughts. He seems to have a renewed interest in the quality of certain Yamaha breath controllers, but I'm sure anything he'd have to say on breath controllers of any kind will shed some light on the process.HCMarkus wrote: Anybody using his or her breath to control VI's?
btw-- great post, HC!