A/D converters??

alex123 · Post by **alex123** » Tue May 08, 2007 6:11 pm

hey, i have presonus firpod and am using its conveters and have never tried any other converters. If i were to get something like the motu 828 or like a fireface 800, will the converters make the sound quality better? If not what will better converters do?

ganapatimusic · Post by **ganapatimusic** » Tue May 08, 2007 11:59 pm

What makes you think the 828 would have better convertors?
RME gets alot of favorable posts regarding the sound of their products. There is probably a clearly discernable difference between older stuff (original 828) and more recent products. Between the convertor you have and a current 828mkII I think you would get conflicting opinions as to which is better.

There are also higher end choices like Lynx, Apogee, Prism, Mytek, Prism.The Digidesign 192 has a pretty good reputation for being adequate for current professional use- but it is only usable in TDM systems. It seems more and more that a lot of high end users think that convertors have improved to the point that between a Lynx and an Apogee, or even maybe a Lavry that it's somewhat a matter of taste rather than clear superiority. Probably a more noticable difference between microphones, and even mic preamps.

Totally unscientifically it seems like stuff recorded on MOTU products is a little more glassy and my Digidesign 192's a bit more natural and full range sounding. No a/b comparison done. Even my old 828 seems ok, though stuff recorded on the 16 bit 888 digidesgn had out 10 years ago seems harsher than 16 bit on the MOTU stuff. Some might call that more agressive.

So it's quite possible you might find something that you feel is clearly superior, it's also quite possible that in the same price range it will just be a little different, until convertors presumably get better in that price range in a few years.
Unless you have good mics, and pres and plugins already you might get more improvement for your dollar investing in those items IMHO.

JadeLatrell · Post by **JadeLatrell** » Wed May 09, 2007 8:14 am

Try searching the forum a bit as this topic has come up a ton. In a nutshell,

* MOTU 828 wont give you a significant converter update, you'll have to go to the higher end to do that.

* Are you sure you need 8 converters, because there are some great 2 channels.

* What else are you using in the signal chain? Pre-amps, Mics, perhaps even cables

* What are you using for monitors (perhaps this should be the first point)

*Is the room treated?

Monitors and room treatment, although not sexy will improve your mixes and tracking.

Bottom line, what "problem" are you having? Perhaps that is the best way to start.

gearboy · Post by **gearboy** » Wed May 09, 2007 9:48 am

The converters in the MOTU 828mk2 are fine. It's the clock jitter and the analog path's op-amps that's the problem. Clock off of something better and have Black Lion upgrade the analog path and it'll compete. I had mine done and I can't imagine more expensive sounding better, as the modded 828mk2 sounds fantastic, and I have yet to record from the ground up with it. If older sessions/mixes sound this good...

The firepod...??? Not sure. Never used it. Maybe consider a MiniMe and clock the Firepod off of that?

JadeLatrell · Post by **JadeLatrell** » Wed May 09, 2007 9:51 am

I'll agree with you gearboy that the converters are fine on the 828, but are they significant enough of a difference to be called an upgrade from the Firepod?

OldTimey · Post by **OldTimey** » Wed May 09, 2007 10:38 am

JadeLatrell wrote:I'll agree with you gearboy that the converters are fine on the 828, but are they significant enough of a difference to be called an upgrade from the Firepod?

probably not too much. where the heck is the 828mk3 now??? digi003 is out, I want a new 828...or a new 2408...

MOTU interfaces, while perhaps currently lacking in the analog and clocking areas are so versatile and rock solid with DP in my experience...

gearboy · Post by **gearboy** » Sun May 13, 2007 11:53 am

OldTimey wrote: MOTU interfaces, while perhaps currently lacking in the analog and clocking areas are so versatile and rock solid with DP in my experience...

Yeah, they are. Add the analog/clock mod from BLA and they are amazing. I'm a very happy customer.

Jeff

OldTimey · Post by **OldTimey** » Sun May 13, 2007 6:20 pm

gearboy wrote:
OldTimey wrote: MOTU interfaces, while perhaps currently lacking in the analog and clocking areas are so versatile and rock solid with DP in my experience...
Yeah, they are. Add the analog/clock mod from BLA and they are amazing. I'm a very happy customer.

Jeff

jeff, im so close to getting it done! wish i had another 828 for backup, but i dont need that many inputs...but i just got these dynaudio monitors last month, and would love to hear how they sound through a BLA828mk2

zerosin · Post by **zerosin** » Wed May 16, 2007 11:22 am

Are you guys confusing the Presonus Firepod with RME's Fireface? He stated he had the Presonus converter which is OK but there is much better for under $1k.

RME is a great product, Apogee quality with a slightly lower price tag. The Fireface 400 would be a great interface. The Apogee MiniMe with the USB option would be as well. Both between $700-999.

A nice clock like the Aardsync or BigBen really brings clockable MOTU interfaces into a new light.

janglyrecords · Post by **janglyrecords** » Wed May 16, 2007 3:09 pm

I started my quest for better converters a bit unorthodox, but it has really been a better way than I could have hoped for. I started with an Apogee Big Ben clock. I had a Roland 2480 at the time and the improvement the clock made to the converters was amazing. I then moved up to a Mac with DP 4.6 and added an Apogee PSX-100 (used on ebay for $949). More improvement. I use a MOTU Traveler as my base I/O clocked to the Big Ben. It smokes. However, I just added an Apogee 800 and use the ADAT into the Traveler. I have found the right mix for me. 10ch. I/O of Apogee with the Traveler as the conduit.

Now that's a lot of scratch for converters. But this was done over a couple of years. It was the order that turned out to be important. I started with the clock, added 2 chs. added 8 more and I'll add more as budget permits. The sound of the converters is more important that I realized.

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Wed May 16, 2007 3:13 pm

Jangly,

Mind sizing that Avatar down a bit? Quite a bit actually?

Thanks!

janglyrecords · Post by **janglyrecords** » Thu May 17, 2007 8:32 am

Sorry. I've taken it off until I can get to fixing it. I didn't realize it'a obnoxious size until it hit a posting. Thanks for the feedback.

OldTimey · Post by **OldTimey** » Thu May 17, 2007 9:30 am

hmm yeah, trying to decide an upgrade path as far as conversion goes is tricky...which pieces can stay, which ones need to go etc...with analog gear, for me it's pretty simple, "It all stays", because a radioshack mic can be just as useful as a neumann if not more so in certain situations...(like connecting it to a guitar amp, cranking the gain, and swinging it around by it's chord. great feedback effects...wouldnt do this with a U49 no would you??? well, maybe if you were....) enough of that.

with digital stuff it's a bit more difficult.

start with a good clock? or get good converters first? try to get an all in one box with everything that interfaces with a mac? now you are putting all your eggs in one basket....

i dunno it's tough. i keep thinking about picking up a mytek or a minime for two nice channels of A/D, and clocking the MOTU off of that. At home, two channels at a time is all i ever do. but...that doesnt do much for the D/A that i need.

it's either that or BLA modded 828 with their new microclock...i dont know. too many decisions.

catfishmusic · Post by **catfishmusic** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:00 pm

gearboy wrote:...have Black Lion upgrade the analog path and it'll compete. I had mine done and I can't imagine more expensive sounding better, as the modded 828mk2 sounds fantastic

You've got my wheels turning! They do the Traveler as well I see....so it was a really noticable difference?

Appalachian Boy · Post by **Appalachian Boy** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:53 am

i still have the original 828's, and i imagine i will for quite a while.

I have noticed huge upgrades by improving what goes into it, but what comes out sounds slightly dead and tinny.

Eventually i will have to go for an apogee or something that can really take me up there.