Comparing BLA a/c 828mk2 to stock with various preamps, etc

gearboy · Post by **gearboy** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:36 pm

Well, I took some time tonight to scientifically record some acoustic guitar with my trusty AKG 414 B/ULS. I did this for my own knowledge, as I have upgraded all of my preamps and modded my 828mk2 since my last big recording session in the fall (been mixing since them and working on IDM stuff of my own).

I used the following signal path:
2000 Taylor 310ce, capo at 2nd fret
AKG 414 B/ULS pointed at the 12th-14th fret of the Taylor
10' Monster mic cable
into...
MOTU 828mk2 with Black Lion analog and clock mod
MOTU 828mk2 (stock)

I compared the following:
Taylor -->414-->cable-->MOTU 828mk2 with Black Lion analog and clock mod using...
MOTU preamp modded by Black Lion
Sytek channel #1 (stock Neotek preamp)
Sytek Channel #3 (Burr-Brown op-amp)
Presonus MP20 w/Burr Brown mod
Presonus MP20 w/Burr Brown mod and IDSS set to 1 o'clock
Symetrix SX-202
Electro Harmonix 12AY7 (12AU7 in L, GT 12AX7 in R)

and then...
Taylor -->414-->cable-->MOTU 828mk2 (stock) using...
Stock MOTU preamp
Sytek channel #1 (stock Neotek preamp)
Sytek Channel #3 (Burr-Brown op-amp)
Presonus MP20 w/Burr Brown mod
Presonus MP20 w/Burr Brown mod and IDSS set to 1 o'clock
Symetrix SX-202
Electro Harmonix 12AY7 (12AU7 in L, GT 12AX7 in R)

I only listened back to all of the files through the modded 828mk2, since I know how much of a difference there is monitoring through the stock vs modded units.

My impressions:

•••It seems that the stock 828mk2's inputs are slightly hotter and overload more quickly.
•••Once can instantly hear clocking errors/analog path degradation of signal in the unmodded unit. The Taylor sounds less 3D and all preamps sound "tinty" in the high mids with less detailed low end.
•••The modded MOTU mic preamp is as nice as the Sytek channel one for clean.
•••The Symetrix SX-202 is a very cool little preamp and sounds great. I just bought it last week on eBay for $118. It's from 1988 and is 2 channels. Very clean.
•••The Burr-Brown Sytek Channel sounds amazing, as does the EH 12AY7.
•••The MP20 sounds good, though not as good as the Sytek Burr-Brown. The IDSS control darkens things up a bit, though the EH 12AY7 sounds much better for a tube sound (duh!).

I plan on recreating the experiment even more scientifically by:
•••recording the same chord progression to a click track so that all files can be flipped through in time with one another
•••Keeping all levels on the preamps exactly the same and using Trim to set input levels more precisely
•••using the AKG414 B/ULS, the AT4047sv, an Oktava MK012, a Sennheiser e609 Silver, and an SM57 in the next experiment.

All files will be raw, no compression, no EQ or roll-off. I'll post them as WAV files (30 to 45 secs) on my server and create a basic webpage for download. You'll be able to drag to zero in DP and flip through them, comparing the BLA 828mk2 to the stock version, as well as the analog path using several preamps and mics.

I am hoping to be done the recording part of this by Sunday evening, and want to have to time to do it all in one shot. I may also see about feeding an electric guitar loop (direct) to an amp via ReAmp and micing the amp with the same signal paths.

I need to learn my new gear and I'll be sure to share the results with you all!

Jeff

jrdmcdnld · Post by **jrdmcdnld** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:00 am

Thanks for putting in all of this work for us, Jeff. I am very interested in hearing the results.

gearboy · Post by **gearboy** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:13 am

Hang tight, as I have a day job as a graphic designer and I am busy with editing a soundtrack at night. I'm going to get to this sometime this week. I may post the initial files that I recorded the other night online for download later this week but I seriously want to keep all guitar parts the same and in sync to a metronome. This will enable any of us to simply solo each track to hear the difference between the two interfaces, the preamps, and the mics. Since it's just me and I want to do everything the same day I need a time slot of 3-6 hours to engineer this as scientifically accurate as possible.

More to come.

Jeff

OldTimey · Post by **OldTimey** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:25 am

I too can't wait to hear the results. I'm going to send my 828mk2 to BLA for the analog mod later this month. They no longer offer the clock mod, but indeed will be coming out with an external clock for under 400 dollars. It is said to have 3 BNC outs and is smaller than half a rack space. I was told that the clocking will be on par with (or even better) then big ben. This doesn't come as a surprise to me as I've always felt that external clocks are overpriced considering the internal components not having to pass any audio signal whatsoever. Clocking technology, thanks to Matt @ BLA should continue to progress, and eventually get cheaper, like CPU's and the like. I wonder how the big uns' apogee in particular will respond to this.

gearboy · Post by **gearboy** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:52 pm

OldTimey wrote:I too can't wait to hear the results. I'm going to send my 828mk2 to BLA for the analog mod later this month. They no longer offer the clock mod, but indeed will be coming out with an external clock for under 400 dollars. It is said to have 3 BNC outs and is smaller than half a rack space. I was told that the clocking will be on par with (or even better) then big ben. This doesn't come as a surprise to me as I've always felt that external clocks are overpriced considering the internal components not having to pass any audio signal whatsoever. Clocking technology, thanks to Matt @ BLA should continue to progress, and eventually get cheaper, like CPU's and the like. I wonder how the big uns' apogee in particular will respond to this.

This is amazing news. Exactly what I was hoping for. I'm not upset about the price increasing on BLA's work because it is well worth it. Is there a timeline for the clock's release date? NAMM? Is it going to be affiliated with SMPro for distribution?

I am, however, thinking about what is best for my next move. RME? Metric Halo w/ DSP? Mod the (mint!) stock MOTU 828mk2 that's been sitting under my desk? Sell the 828mk2 for a traveller and have that modded by BLA (more preamps)??? I am DEFINITELY keeping my BLA 828mk2, though. I like having two interfaces in case one dies or something.

I would also like to compare the 828mk2 that Matt & Co modded for me with an RME and Metric Halo interface, compare Matt's clock to the MiniMe, etc. If only I had the cash to pick all of this gear up or knew folks who could bring them over for a weekend.

Ok, so, let me record this stuff. If i can't do it by the end of the week I'll post the files that I did on Sat night so you all can download them. Also, I am not going to apply any EQ, compression, limiting, etc. Just straight up preamps and clock.

Jeff

OldTimey · Post by **OldTimey** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:32 pm

gearboy wrote: I am, however, thinking about what is best for my next move. RME? Metric Halo w/ DSP? Mod the (mint!) stock MOTU 828mk2 that's been sitting under my desk? Sell the 828mk2 for a traveller and have that modded by BLA (more preamps)??? I am DEFINITELY keeping my BLA 828mk2, though. I like having two interfaces in case one dies or something.

I too am thinking about upgrading my A/D and D/A at some point in the near future, but getting the 828 modded and holding onto it would make for a pretty nice backup unit in case what ever comes next goes out of order. Nice idea!

gearboy · Post by **gearboy** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:12 pm

Update: I met a fellow local to me via TapeOp who has a Metric Halo interface, so it'll be really cool to incorporate a set of tests that show the differences between the unmodded 828mk2, the BLA 828mk2, and the Metric Halo. In order to do this scientifically, we're going to have record everything in the same room on the same day.

Question: Should I set up a page online with a blind test as well as the information page with all of the mic/preamp/interface combinations?

Jeff

jrdmcdnld · Post by **jrdmcdnld** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:18 pm

gearboy wrote:Update: I met a fellow local to me via TapeOp who has a Metric Halo interface, so it'll be really cool to incorporate a set of tests that show the differences between the unmodded 828mk2, the BLA 828mk2, and the Metric Halo. In order to do this scientifically, we're going to have record everything in the same room on the same day.

Question: Should I set up a page online with a blind test as well as the information page with all of the mic/preamp/interface combinations?

Jeff

Blind taste test, Great! If we PM you with our guesses, can you give us the results beforehand?

HCMarkus · Post by **HCMarkus** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:50 pm

Cool Jeff. Thanks for sharing. Looking forward to hearing the results.