MONSTER (GUITAR) CABLE silliness... documented... :-)

[gregwhartley]

I've been using one of those armoured cables at jam "sessions" for a good while - it's got Neutrik jacks and a phonebooth style metal jacket around it. That's the only cable I have ever bought - ever, and even so, it was only an impulse buy because I thought it looked cool and figured it would prevent the obnoxious problem of mid-cable lead breakage from other bandmates rolling their amps over it and dropping cymbals on it (my bandmates aren't that clumsy, but you know - just in case).

I don't buy manufactured cables because they're overpriced and are often not terminated to satisfaction. I feel more confident running a (paid) recording session with cables that I know are in phase, clean, and that have light, smooth, shiny solder joints that could tow a school bus (should you happen to find one that sports the optional XLR tow panel on the front bumper) - i.e. cables that I made my own damn self. I hate terminating TRS jacks though - TRS snakes make my eyes bleed out of my face!

Sorry to kind of get off topic, but has anybody ever used the George L's? From what I remember you don't have to solder anything at all, plus I think they were thinking of making balanced solderless jacks (if they haven't already). I don't know whether I'd trust them like some Monster "Rock" cables, but just curious .

[James Steele]

Sorry, I meant 4.648".

Dude... I knew that HAD to be a typo. Everyone knows that micing the strap 4.648" above the strap button went out with Scholz Power Soaks. The 4.647" (even in some cases 4.646") is the bomb! And yes, black has more high-end than other colors.

[James Steele]

Sorry to kind of get off topic, but has anybody ever used the George L's? From what I remember you don't have to solder anything at all, plus I think they were thinking of making balanced solderless jacks (if they haven't already). I don't know whether I'd trust them like some Monster "Rock" cables, but just curious .

I have a guitarist friend locally that I trust on a lot of things regarding tone and he has wired up his stuff with George L and swears by it. He's more of a pedalboard guy, where as most of my stuff is rack mounted and switched in by a GCX switcher (using relays, etc.) into my effects loop. Mine is wired with afforementioned Belden and Switchcraft, bug again because I'm using an effects loop, it's passing line level and not a weaker signal prior to hitting the preamp stage.

Odd thing is, I'm really just too busy to screw around with rewiring my rig. I suspect frankly that many people are just too busy to go messing with this stuff and "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." If I were some big star and had some guitar tech working for me and could just say "Hey would you re-do all my interconnects with George L so I can see if it makes a difference?" that'd be one thing... but that would be the better part of a day and I'd have to do the ENTIRE RIG to be certain if there's a difference. Oh yeah, and once it's done, it's going to be difficult to A/B against the old right. I suppose I could try record before and after without changing mic placement, but being in the room with it is really the best way to hear any nuances like we're talking about. Microphones, as good a they are these days, won't pick up certain qualities that you can detect being right in the room with the sound source. Also, much of it as far as guitar is "tactile"... that is, odd as it may sound, the difference may require playing the guitar to hear in terms of whether the instrument "jumps out at you" a little more or less.

The problem is that there is so much voodoo to this as well as personal biases and prejudices and the human brain is very, very good at playing tricks on us when our brain is conditioned to expect or want a certain outcome, hence these blind tests that we read about often yield results that conflict with what we expect.

[BradLyons]

James,

So I have to ask myself....... We are audio people who use our ears, why do we have "blind" tests? I mean, blind-folding ourselves doesn't do much when we're listening! It's like this Earthworks TC30 microphone, I'm told it's a "high definition" mic, but I am listening and listening and just can't hear it! I want my money back!

[monkey man]

... It's like this Earthworks TC30 microphone, I'm told it's a "high definition" mic, but I am listening and listening and just can't hear it! I want my money back!

You probably forgot to crank it to 11, Brad.

Wait. That's definitely not a belt buckle.

World-class timing, Chris.

[James Steele]

James,

So I have to ask myself....... We are audio people who use our ears, why do we have "blind" tests? I mean, blind-folding ourselves doesn't do much when we're listening! It's like this Earthworks TC30 microphone, I'm told it's a "high definition" mic, but I am listening and listening and just can't hear it! I want my money back!

The Earthworks are great mics for overheads. Jim Watson who is playing drums on my project (and engineering and mixing) switched to them 3 songs into the project and loves them.

[gregwhartley]

...I'd have to do the ENTIRE RIG to be certain if there's a difference. Oh yeah, and once it's done, it's going to be difficult to A/B against the old right. I suppose I could try record before and after without changing mic placement, but being in the room with it is really the best way to hear any nuances like we're talking about. Microphones, as good a they are these days, won't pick up certain qualities that you can detect being right in the room with the sound source. Also, much of it as far as guitar is "tactile"... that is, odd as it may sound, the difference may require playing the guitar to hear in terms of whether the instrument "jumps out at you" a little more or less...

Being a guitarist myself I completely agree with this, James. Even if you didn't rewire the entire rack and just ran whatever cable you were testing from your guitar into a class-A tube amp and recorded it into any rig the difference wouldn't be as great as if you were right there in the room with it, experiencing it first hand.

I never trust other people's recorded examples of what different cables sound like. The only difference that can be accurately presented in this manner is the noise floor, and even then I'm skeptical (was the cable running next to the amp's power source, or a rack's power source?). The reason I don't trust these pre-recorded tests is that it is so easy to "accidentally" move the mic a half of a cm towards the speaker or source, thereby adding some "warmth" (proximity effect) and making cable x that much better than cable b.

I do acknowledge that some cables are higher in quality than others, but when it goes into the whole bandwidth discussion of which cables are brighter, or more mellow, or whatever, I personally believe that those added benefits of said [instrument] cable mean nothing in the grand scheme of the entire signal chain (most importantly, with the introduction of a microphone, preamp and ADC). I'll spend much more time moving a mic around on a cab speaker (or speakers) than selecting an instrument cable.

Time is better spent practicing than debating cables, as that makes the biggest difference of all... Ummm, I'm gonna go now...

[monkey man]

...The reason I don't trust these pre-recorded tests is that it is so easy to "accidentally" move the mic a half of a cm towards the speaker or source, thereby adding some "warmth" (proximity effect) and making cable x that much better than cable b.

Happy accidents make for greater profits.

I do acknowledge that some cables are higher in quality than others, but when it goes into the whole bandwidth discussion of which cables are brighter, or more mellow, or whatever, I personally believe that those added benefits of said [instrument] cable mean nothing in the grand scheme of the entire signal chain (most importantly, with the introduction of a microphone, preamp and ADC).

Hear, hear.

[gridgital]

[quote= Also, I was wondering if I play jazz fusion can I just splice 10 feet of the rock guitar cable with 10 feet of the jazz guitar cable?[/quote]

I'm wonderin if you stripped back different types of cables they sell would the strands be the same or different. Or if they ran out of a specific type of cable when they had a big order to fill, would they go ahead and replace the acoustic version with the jazz and have some sweat shop solder it up and sell it as acoustic!

ouuu, what if we caught em!

[mhschmieder]

Yowsa, $1500 for a pair of Earthworks TC30, and you're fretting (no pun intended) over the cost of cables!?!?!

If you decide those TC30's can only be appreciated by "Golden Ears", send them along .

[James Steele]

Yowsa, $1500 for a pair of Earthworks TC30, and you're fretting (no pun intended) over the cost of cables!?!?!

If you decide those TC30's can only be appreciated by "Golden Ears", send them along .

Who's fretting over the cost of cables? I don't own any Earthworks mics either... my buddy Jim does. Who was this directed toward?

[mhschmieder]

It was a joke. Hence the smileys. The topic seemed to start as a bit of a joke about these boutique high-priced cables that distinguish themselves in mysterious ways to reach different sub-segments of the market.