Macbook/DP5 high track count...why need EXT drive, I ask?

skan · Post by **skan** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:22 am

My question is simply this: Why do I need to get an external FW drive to playback audio from if I just achieved the following:

Digital Performer 5.11
Macbook Core 2 Duo
160gig 5400 rpm internal drive (100 gig free)

80 mono tracks playing back simultaneously.
10 e-verbs
10 MW Compressors
10 MW Limiters
10 MW Equalisers

Couldn't get the CPU to get to 30%.

This (for me) is an absurdly high track count, probably quadruple what I would ever use. Granted, using higher quality plugs (reverbs perhaps) would ramp up CPU usage...but I don't use any.

OS seemed fine, redraws..fine...what was I straining that I couldn't see??? Will I eventually 'scramble' the OS with all the to-ing and fro-ing of tasks...or physically wear out the read head??

ps. I only ever record 2 tracks simultaneously.

sdfalk · Post by **sdfalk** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:41 am

If I had a fast external firewire drive (7200 rpm with a big cache), I'd opt for that.
I'd want any project I'm working on away from my system drive in case of a
cataclysmic crash of the internal drive.

skan · Post by **skan** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:56 am

sdfalk wrote:If I had a fast external firewire drive (7200 rpm with a big cache), I'd opt for that.
I'd want any project I'm working on away from my system drive in case of a
cataclysmic crash of the internal drive.

Thanks for your replay sdfalk...but isn't it just as likely that an external could also crash? Or is a boot drive more likely to because of the amount
of stuff it has to do?

Cheers
skan

grimepoch · Post by **grimepoch** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:08 pm

what buffer setting? That is one big difference when making these tests.

skan · Post by **skan** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:25 pm

grimepoch wrote:what buffer setting? That is one big difference when making these tests.

1024

grimepoch · Post by **grimepoch** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:30 pm

That's one reason why. I've NEVER had issues running at high buffer settings in DP on either my MacBook or PowerBook G4 when I was at 1024. It's even better in DP5.11 because all those audio tracks will get pre-rendered.

Now, running at 64 buffer and trying to stream a lot of audio tracks and a lot of live plugs (one's that you either select to run in realtime or VIs) and that is where you start to see the limitations.

skan · Post by **skan** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:58 pm

grimepoch wrote: Now, running at 64 buffer and trying to stream a lot of audio tracks and a lot of live plugs (one's that you either select to run in realtime or VIs) and that is where you start to see the limitations.

...and in such a situation I would need to go to an external drive to alleviate these limitations? Is that the point you're making? Jusyt want to clarify...

Cheers for your help on this, much appreciated!

Eleventh Hour Sound · Post by **Eleventh Hour Sound** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:05 pm

That's awesome that you're getting that kind of performance. I agree that low buffer settings (especially when you're playing VI live in realtime) increase the need for more and faster drives... It's always good to have at least one external drive for backup, if nothing else...

grimepoch · Post by **grimepoch** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:09 pm

It really will depend on your situation, but yes, as it's a matter of data throughput and seek times. Having a 7200RPM drive with a horrible seek time would also be bad.

When doing lots of live tracking, you can get into situations were you are hitting alot of IO bandwidth. Also, if you are using plugins that stream from disk (like mach5 can) with huge libraries. Many plugins allow for either running from memory or from disk. However, some sample libraries are so large, it would be impossible to run all in memory.

The last project I did on my MacPro had like 155 mono tracks playing at 64 buffer size with lots of plugs and still room for the CPU. I was shocked. When I run at 1024, the meter barely hits 5% to 10% (rought estimate).

skan · Post by **skan** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:19 pm

So, may I put this to you guys (and tell me please if it would be going over the top with the 2 external drives...)

Macbook internal drive: OSX + DP5 + Mach 5

1st external 7200 rpm FW for audio only.

2nd external 7200 rpm FW for Mach 5 sample library only

Eleventh Hour Sound · Post by **Eleventh Hour Sound** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:25 pm

Usually the more the better : )

That's kind of how I've got mine setup, one for sample libraries and one for DP audio. Since the one with sample libraries had tons of room on it, I sometimes use it as an online backup drive for me Audio Files.

The only possible issue you may run into, is if all the firewire ports share the same firewire channel, you may run into a bottleneck when you're passing a lot of data...

skan wrote:So, may I put this to you guys (and tell me please if it would be going over the top with the 2 external drives...)

Macbook internal drive: OSX + DP5 + Mach 5

1st external 7200 rpm FW for audio only.

2nd external 7200 rpm FW for Mach 5 sample library only

grimepoch · Post by **grimepoch** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:26 pm

What are you doing for audio?

Also, Mach5 is not UB yet so you cannot use it.

If you are not using huge libraries of sound on your sampler, and you have 2G in your machine, I think you are better off not streaming the samples from disk. Just use one external drive for projects and the internal for DP.

HOWEVER, if you aren't having performance issues, maybe just use something like 'Super Duper' and backup your drive instead on the external. From a safety standpoint, this would be the safest. If the internal drive dies, you can then boot up off the external and still go.

Yes...I have done this at a show before.

Dwetmaster · Post by **Dwetmaster** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:31 pm

Hey Skan, If I may add these test are not done with the most intensive plug ins. I find my MBP to be pretty effective with any dry audio only project. It nastier when you start to add altiverb, MWEQ on every track... Also Testing with VIs, you might find some difference. I'm not complaining as I like MBP a lot. I'm just saying that I don't feel I can trust my 5400 internal disk for heavy use. That's why I got a separate esata drive for.

skan · Post by **skan** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:40 pm

RecordingArts wrote:\

The only possible issue you may run into, is if all the firewire ports share the same firewire channel, you may run into a bottleneck when you're passing a lot of data...

Well, the Macbook only has one FW port so it would all be a daisy chain...and yes, perhaps bottleneck...

Macbook>Soundcard>FW1>FW2.

skan · Post by **skan** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:43 pm

grimepoch wrote:What are you doing for audio?

Also, Mach5 is not UB yet so you cannot use it.

If you are not using huge libraries of sound on your sampler, and you have 2G in your machine, I think you are better off not streaming the samples from disk. Just use one external drive for projects and the internal for DP.

Yes, but when Mach 5 comes out I'll be getting it so I want to have the hardware ready to go...Yes I have 2GB.

No major orchestrations on the sampler... so yes, perhaps I could save money on one less drive and just let M5 run in RAM?