Ultralite - I can't hear myself (barely) using CueMix

[kwonga]

Hi everybody, I'm new to the ultralite and just got one yesterday. I've been using audacity to record myself. It works. I record my voice and on the playback it's loud and clear. However, as I am recording, I can barely hear anything. That doesn't work well with say playing an mp3 and singing to it. The mp3 is way too loud and I can't hear my own voice.

Can someone show me the shortcut method to getting to hearing myself as I record. I think I misunderstood some of the book's details. I opened the cuemix console and turned up the input 1 (my microphone) as well as turning up the master volue. I added all the gain I can to the hardware (meaning the ultralite is turned up with its knobs tot he max). So I think I'm missing something. Someone please let me know how I can hear myself and thanks very much.

[Guitartist]

Hi Kwonga,
You are not alone. I am having the same issue with my 896HD. Also new to MOTU gear.

I've been using AudioDesk and Garageband to record acoustic guitar and vocal through a condenser mic into an Intel iMac, OS10.4.9.

Even with everything turned up in both CueMix and on the interface I can barely hear the new input over the previously recorded track. Also, as you have experienced, what you just recorded plays back fairly loud.

I would be happy to share any solutions! If I learn something elsewhere, I'll definitely post it.

Thanks,
Guitartist

[jrdmcdnld]

What headphones are you using? Closed headphones that deaden the outside sound are probably best for tracking with. I love to use Sennheiser HD202s. They're tight on your head and reproduce low mids and bass very well. They make everything sound huge in a way. $25/pair.

Here is how I recomend making a headphone mix: Get the instrument/voice that you are recording loud enough in the headphones using mic pre gain, cuemix volume, and headphone amp volume. Once you have that optimized, bring up the tracks you are overdubbing. This way, the headphone mix will have its priorities straight.

[Guitartist]

What headphones are you using? Closed headphones that deaden the outside sound are probably best for tracking with. I love to use Sennheiser HD202s. They're tight on your head and reproduce low mids and bass very well. They make everything sound huge in a way. $25/pair.

Here is how I recomend making a headphone mix: Get the instrument/voice that you are recording loud enough in the headphones using mic pre gain, cuemix volume, and headphone amp volume. Once you have that optimized, bring up the tracks you are overdubbing. This way, the headphone mix will have its priorities straight.

Hi jrdmcdnld,
Thanks for your reply!

I'm using my trusty AKG K240s(closed, etc.) connected to the headphone jack on the front of the 896HD.
Getting the input volume loud enough in the cans to do any work is the problem. When you play back what you recorded or other pre-recorded material (mp3, CD), it's as loud as expected.

Using a fully functional Rode K2 mic through 896HD preamps. Have tried other mics/cables, input channels, headphones, the usual suspects, etc.

Scenario:
••• 896HD preamp knob and meters up pretty high(near clip)
••• Headphone volume knob and meters also high
••• Monitor level knob set to CueMix 1 and turned up high
••• CueMix 1 master and input virtual faders all the way up with their meters showing pretty huge in-coming signal...

Should be loud as hell and yet very low volume from mic in phones.

I can't imagine it's meant to work this way. Must be something fundamental I'm missing.

Am used to working in analog and being able to monitor at excruciating levels if needed.

One reason I want to establish a host based digital setup at home is to play around with mics and mic techniques. Can't do that if I only hear the input signal at a whisper.

Thanks for any advice!

Guitartist

[Guitartist]

Not sure of the protocol here, so I apologize if it seems I'm hijacking kwonga's thread. Not my intention at all.

It's just that our issues seem to be one and the same and both of us would likely benefit from the same solution.

Thanks,
Guitartist

[jrdmcdnld]

Guitartist,

Many people complain that when coming from the analog domain and into the digital domain that they can't get enough beef out of their headphone mixes. I have an idea: just because you are recording digitally, doesn't mean you have to monitor digitally. Your 896 has enough ins and outs to let you monitor using an analog mixer. You could set the level of the mic pre and then send it to it's own output of the 896, seperate from the main mix. Then use the analog mixer to blend the mic signal and the DAW mix. That way, you won't be clipping the digital input, but you can get a mix loud enough to blow your ear drums if you want it to.

This method will allow you to have a seperate gain stage after the recorded signal. In other words, you can crank on it really hard just like you could in the days of old.

My opinion on the AKG 240 is that it is a great headphone, but it is not good for tracking. I own a K240 DF set (DF has something to do with higher resistance in the windings of the voice coils). Even though they are a closed headphone, they do let in a lot of outside noise. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 240 series of headphones was designed to behave more like you are listening to a pair of speakers instead of headphones. What would help you, is a different set of cans. The HD202s that I mentioned give you a much more in your face, ballsy sound. It is true that you will see K240s in a lot of studios for tracking. But for 1/4 the cost, the HD202s kick butt.

[kwonga]

Hi Guitartist,
no worries. Your opinions are much valued to me and everyone else. Authorship and ownership are not important. We are all sharing and helping each other. I have been away all week since I work the week and sleep once I get home.

Would you believe this? I emailed the guy at Motu tech support and he said to turn down the volume of the mp3 playback as I sing along. I figured all this out already. I am sure anyone can figure that out.

This is a real mystery, and I don't think it's the earphones to be frank. Why would earphones differ that much? Mine are closed-ear too. And we both already could hear it loud and clear when playback. Something's not right. Maybe mine is defective. Motu has products sent back all the time. I don't think - I thought previously that I missed knowledge - but how many options are there really on a Motu device. About 50 or so if you branch them out and only a few options are to be tweaked and I tried all possible options. So I don't think the engineers at Motu are completely crazy to design a product that doesn't work. So maybe it's just a few poorly built out of a batch. Maybe we got lemons. Who knows. All I can say is this really pisses me off. But at least I can refund it.

Cheers, all the best. And can someone please come out with a solution. I'll post what things I tried when I try it again in a few days.

[Guitartist]

Howdy kwonga & jrdmcdnld

jrdmcdnld was absolutely correct in suspecting my headphones first. 'Like to give credit where credit is due. Thanks!

I took a closer look at my "trusty old" AKG240 headphones and was instantly reminded, with one of those "duh..." moments, that these are the "M" series which are 600 ohms impedance, for use in studios with mostly +4 equipment chains. Consumer equipment phones are usually around 55 ohms resistance. BIG difference.

I plugged in a pair of home stereo/hi-fi headphones and I could hear a significant improvement in loudness. 'Still a bit on the quiet side, so a headphone amp of some sort as jrdmcdnld suggests is probably in order. I'll check out some Sennheiser HD202s as well.

Also think I may still not be routing it all best the possible way.

Was at a friends house last night recording through his MOTU Traveler into Logic Pro and was able to monitor at good levels with my K240M phones through his $99. Behringer headphone amp. However, the headphone amp channel for his pro-sumer phones was turned up less than 1/3 and mine to about 3/4 to get the same loudness.

I hope this helps you, kwonga. Once I get my setup working better, I'll post what worked for me. Any other tips always appreciated.

I used to have the following printed and taped to the back of some road gear. It seems I will be working on rule #3 re: MOTU gear for a while, yet.(grin)

TROUBLESHOOTING 101
1. IS IT TURNED ON?
2. IS IT PLUGGED IN?
3. DO YOU KNOW HOW IT WORKS?
4. DID IT WORK BEFORE?
5. WHAT HAS CHANGED?
6. HAVE YOU CHECKED ALL CONNECTIONS?
7. ARE YOU SURE IT IS TURNED ON?

[kwonga]

Hey Guitartist and Jrdmcdnld, you're right about the headphones making a diff. I read about that too elsewhere. Anyhow, I transfered some audio tape of me singing when I was a kid and the transfer went okay. When I plugged in my mic, I was quiet. So I wondered if I should switch the pad from the factory setting to another setting. Apparently the pad has three options. I had assumed the pad was set at the loudest volume. Apparently not! Switching the pad to the highest volume made my microphone loud and I was in nirvana!!! Motu makes the best audio equipment. Better than Digidesign. Anyhow, my recommendation to Guitartist is to just play around with the switches. I'm not sure what the 896HD can be tinkered with but I'm guessing now that since your microphone is quiet maybe you should add more gain with a preamp or something. Also, do what I did. I intended to transfer audio tapes of me singing to the computer with the Ultralite. The reason for my purchase. You might find you can listen to a audio tape or radio station plugged into your Motu with loud volume. That means your microphone isn't supplying a loud enough signal. That's my guess. Anyhow now that my problem is solved, I'm not going to abandon you two. I'll be willing to help. But my best advice is just play around and experiment. Insanity is doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results - Albert Einstein. I guess I'm insane